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Topic: string names and other deficencies |
Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2007 2:20 pm |
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| after a year I still havent bothered to learn em. I know 4 and 8 are the E's and thats it. I also still dont know what my levers and pedals do (cept the E and D levers because they raise and lower the E's hehe). Now I can play some songs and i know the AB will take me from the I to IV chord etc, I know some licks, I can play minor chords and probably other kinds that I cannot name (whats BD get you? i play that one lots). Ive recorded a buncha tunes with this thing and it sounds good to me. My question is how important is to know that stuff? Wouldnt be hard to memorize I guess. Will worlds of understanding open up for me if I memorize the string names and specific changes for each pedal? or should I just keep free wheelin along blissfuly ignorant? |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 5 Jan 2007 2:53 pm
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I don't know if it will "open up a new world of understanding" for you. But I don't really understand how anybody could really play this contraption without knowing how it's tuned and clearly understanding what each pedal and lever does. I imagine some do, but I would find it pretty limiting.
Now, I suppose it would be possible to understand this stuff purely by ear, as opposed to from a music theoretic sense. But I think it's a huge boost to know enough music theory to know how musical intervals translate to different chords and scales, and how they're related. I think of them both in terms of musical notes and mathematical interval relationships.
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| cept the E and D levers because they raise and lower the E's...whats BD get you? |
I think most players call the E-raise lever the "F-lever" and the E-lower lever the "E-lever". So if you're talking about the B-pedal and the E-lower lever together, that gives a B dominant 7th chord on strings 1-8 and 10. I'd feel pretty naked not knowing that kind of thing - without knowing the lingo, I'd find it hard to get info from others. But YMMV - whatever works.  |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 5 Jan 2007 2:56 pm
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NO!!!!!!!,
Do not go "freewheelin blisfully ignorant" old/bad habits are hard to break. Go to this link, and look at some of the tunings and string notes, pedal changes, and string gauges. Also look through b0bs listings of beginer courses and learn the right way. You can purchase a decent chromatic tuner for under $50, that is a great tool for looking at what note "that string" is,also a good tool for finding notes at different places on the guitar.
http://b0b.com/tunings/index.html
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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James Sission
From:
Sugar Land,Texas USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2007 3:06 pm
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Ben, After a year on the steel myself, I can tell you that learning those things will certainly help you to improvise on the fly if you have to. However, just knowing the following will help you a great deal:
Open: Major or I chord
B/C ii or 2 minor
LKR iii or 3 minor
A/B IV or 4 chord
LKR/B V7 or the five 7th chord
A vi or 6 minor chord
B sus 4
All this is assuming that you never move the bar. I would strongly suggest,one newbie to another, that you look at the video on steelguitar.com called "Demystifying the E9th" Tuning. It will open up a world of places to play chords, and very easily as well. I usually dont post on here, but since you and I are nearly the same distance into learning, I thought I would pass this on since it helped me. I might also add, learn page 28 of the Winnie Winston book and learn it in every key and there wont be much country you can't play.......James |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2007 3:45 pm
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| Quote: |
| I think most players call the E-raise lever the "F-lever" and the E-lower lever the "E-lever". |
wow! I am even more screwed up than I thought 
I had a teacher for the first few months i was learning....LKL was the F lever and LKR was the D lever...its gonna take me a million years just to UNLEARN that if its wrong (not the standard). So is there no "D" lever? That would figure, everything about this instrument is illogical to me..that crazy low string above the high one up top! half the strings being #'s, aye carumba!!
Is page 28 Mansion on the Hill? I think i got that down pretty well (but definetly not in every key, Ill give that a try). I guess Im just lazy, I look at the TAB and just listen to the cd and just play the thing. I'll get it together, thanks for the responses..the kick in the pants I needed.
Speaking of Winnies Book, is the harmonics TAB wrong?? I dont have the book in front of me but one of those tabs seems to contain a change I dont have. I noticed it the other night. moved the tab up one set of strings and it worked for me. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2007 4:05 pm
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OKay looking at bOb's stuff, he has the D lever listed as lowering the 2nd string a half step. I have this change on my right knee right (i think), its nothced and can do a half or whole step. i use this lever rarely for certain licks (okay ..ONE lick). Is this change what folks commonly call the D lever?
My other right knee left, seems to lower string 9...that I find useful occasionally.
i got a vertical that i have no clue as to what it does. raises a fifth or something....sigh.
To add to my shame, Ive only had one string change, and have had a scratchy volume pedal pot since day three (thanks goodrich!)...furthermore i dont own a pack a seat and my guitar is not black..its gonna be a long haul. 
okay, feelin pretty stupid here..this is good for me. light a fire. |
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James Sission
From:
Sugar Land,Texas USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2007 5:24 pm
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| No, unless I quoted the wrong page, I meant the page that shows the scales. Basically, I meant to learn the chord positions and then the scales. Learning songs and not knowing what your playing or why, is in my opinion, a total waste of your time becase all your doing is learning songs, not how to play steel. What happens if you learn a song and your on the band stand and the singer points you out for a second solo? You going to play the same thing twice? Learn the basics and then learn a few songs using those basics. That is what Winnies book is designed to do....James |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2007 8:01 pm Deficiencies
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Ben... You MUST learn at least basic theory. You might have the greatest ear in the world and can play up a storm by ear. But, eventually you will slam into a door musically that will never open until you learn what you are doing. Simple theory is not hard to learn. Mike Perlowin has a great book (available from Scotty's Music) that explains simple theory.
(Theory is easy, Putting it use now is another topic altogether)
JMO |
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Tony Russell
From:
North of England
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 6:42 am
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Ben, trying to help regards your right kneelevers; the second string lower is pretty standard; keep it, you will use it more. You mentioned the ninth string lower is on a different lever. Consider adding this change to your lever that lowers the second string. This free's up the other right kneelever to do something else (both G# to G is popular). Your vertical will be on the left knee and B's to Bb (one or both) has devotees. As to knowing the notes, keys etc. learn some fret positions so you can at least play some known chords and work out one on other frets from that, then as time goes on get some more. A band will only wait so long for you to get in key with them!
Regards, Tony. |
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Bill Mayville
From:
Las Vegas Nevada * R.I.P.
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 9:28 am pedal steel
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Hi Ben
As I have helped you a little,I was sure that you were coming along.
If you need some help, just mention it, and I'll make up some cd
s for you.BUt.
In giving names to the levers.The E going left on the standard setup,has to be named something else ,rather than E,because it was E before moving it.Going up ,means it went to F.Going down,it cannot still be E,as it moves into the D range.It happens to be D sharp.It Is Called the D lever.
I am in the process of moving to Abilene.I don't think I have enough unpacked to make Cd's.When I get there ,Change my E-Mail, I'll see if you want my help.if you do , we will cure any problem you May have, about the nicest instrument in the world.Then you'll be ready for ANY seminar,as far as not having an idea what they are talking about.
Bill
_________________
Bill Mayville
06 Jackson Commemorative ,S 10
Black.For Sale . $18,000 Kidding |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 9:43 am
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| My Sho-Bud Crossover only has one knee-lever, and it's equiavalent to the right-knee left lever. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 10:28 am
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Hey thanks for the help everyone. Now that Im in front of my guitar I see that my RKL does lower both 2 and 9. I dig lowering that 9. RKR raises 1 and lowers 6...havent discovered a use for that yet.
Regarding TAB and what i thought was my "D" lever, I see most of the tab ive been using simply has an "L" for lower or an "R" for raise when addressing changes on the E strings. My teachers TAB has "D" or "F" instead. Maybe just his way of TAB? i know everyone is kinda different when it comes to tunings and tab.
Regarding theory, I know a little more than I let on I guess. I DO know scales, harmonized scales, where to find almost any major and minor chord on the fretboard and its name using a variety of pedal combos. I know a wee bit about the circle of fifths, tho my understanding isnt complete, but I know that Am is the relative minor for the key of C etc. I have a tuner and can tune my instrument, tho not by ear which is something I definetly want to learn. I think my real deficency here and the one I mean to correct asap is simply the string names and the pedal lever changes memorized BY NAME rather than by number or "sound". Time to go back thru what i think I know and firm that up, and address some of the things I dont know that are fairly basic.
Thanks again for the input, it has been VERY helpful. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 2:46 pm
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| Quote: |
| Mike Perlowin has a great book (available from Scotty's Music) that explains simple theory. |
Thanks for the plug Jim Bob. I've also written a supplement to the book for steel guitarists. and I will E-mail the file for free to anybody who has bought the book, who wants it. The supplement contains tabbed out examples from the "real" book, and explanations as to how the information it contains relates to what the pedals do.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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