| Author |
Topic: "Hughey land" |
Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
|
Posted 3 Jan 2007 10:06 pm |
|
Hello, everybody!
How many of you regularly play between the 17th and 24th frett's? What is your biggest problem, that high up the neck.....sustain, an even volume, or intonation? Mine would be sustain, although not a major problem. It seems to me that there are not many players who play that high up the neck, on a regular basis. Any thoughts as to why?
Mitch |
|
|
 |
Andy Zahnd
From:
Switzerland
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 6:18 am
|
|
easy what my problem is..... I'm out of tune baddly!!!!
 |
|
|
|
Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 6:29 am
|
|
Good musicians understand the principle of tension and release. Playing a flurry of fast notes, or playing outside the scale or chord tones can create tension, but playing WAAAAY up on the neck does the same thing. Adding wide vibrato not only helps with the intonation but also adds some drama.
Listen to how John uses it. He always brings it back into a lower range very smoothly and this releases the tension. It is very effective, especially in ballads and slow tunes.
I have three different guitars: an Emmons, a Sho-Bud, and a Fessenden. The Emmons seems to perform best in that range (17-24), with the Fessy close behind. The Bud is a bit mellower in that range and doesn't seem to sparkle as much as the aluminum neck guitars.
Playing in that range is a skill. You must learn to trust your EARS first -- the frets are about half the width of frets 1-5. A little (or a LOT of) vibrato can help with both sustain and intonation. You must learn to play in that range with authority.
Good topic.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
|
|
|
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
|
|
|
|
Mike Ester
From:
New Braunfels, Texas, USA
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 8:03 am
|
|
Not to sound like an arrogant wise guy, but I never thought of "Hughey Land" as being "no-man's land". I just figured that since this area is available, why not use it? A lot of the steel sound that sucked me in as a kid was above fret 12. In fact, I never heard the reference "Hughey Land" until I started hanging out on the Forum.
Since we don't have a fiddle player, I'm always the one to kick off "Amarillo By Morning". I always start it at fret 17 and never considered playing it in the lower registers.
I also have to agree with Larry about trusting your ears first. It's very critical to have that trust when playing up higher on the neck. |
|
|
|
Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 9:19 am
|
|
The only problems I have in this area is my left hand hides the frets as I am descending.
Jerry |
|
|
|
Nathan Delacretaz
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 9:59 am
|
|
| As Jerry says, I think the big distinction (aside from the high register sonic effect and tension/release factor Larry wisely notes) is the inability to see the fret positioning clearly... |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 11:24 am
|
|
The equivalent area on the non-pedal guitar I refer to as "Joaquin World."
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
joe wright
From:
Jackson, Michigan
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 12:55 pm
|
|
The bar gets larger as you go up the neck. The only way to overcome is to practice up in the land of small moves.
Every 1 fret move is a different distance up the neck. Moving back down open up your left hand and site 2 frets below.
If you practice enough you can do it without looking....joe |
|
|
|
David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 2:02 pm
|
|
trust Joe on this one... He can talk to 4 different people while playing... for me going that high up the neck is very,very scary....I think I hurt myself once trying it...    |
|
|
|
Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 6:18 pm
|
|
As far as the left-hand problem Jerry mentioned, it's not as bad for me as it is most players. 3 or 4 years ago, I lost the end of my middle finger on my left hand in a farming accident. The INSTANT it got cut off, My music raced through my mind. When I got back from the ER, I played, but the huge bandage made it very hard. The next day, when the bandage came off, I noticed something. When I played waaaay up the neck, I could now see the fret right behind the bar because my finger tip was gone! . You know " When life hands you lemons, make lomonade". I agree with Larry 100%. When your that high, you have GOT to trust your ears. |
|
|
|
Stan Paxton
From:
1/2 & 1/2 Florida and Tenn, USA (old Missouri boy gone South)
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 6:45 pm
|
|
| I like that area up high, my problem is some with intonation, but mainly with tone. Seems to have become too thin; have tried to concentrate on pick angle, pick hand location relative to the bar, everything I can think of, but don't seem to be making much progress with the tone up there.... |
|
|
|
Roger Miller
From:
Cedar Falls, Ia.
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 7:56 pm
|
|
| I've seriously thought if someone wanted to play there and their hand hid the frets, get some tiny stickers at a stationary store and put then on the far side of the fretboard so you can see where you are at. Just some small ones is all you need. |
|
|
|
Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
|
Posted 4 Jan 2007 8:23 pm
|
|
Kinda reminds me of the definition of Gentleman: One who can play the bagpipes but doesn't.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
|
|
|
Dave Diehl
From:
Mechanicsville, MD, USA
|
Posted 5 Jan 2007 9:30 am
|
|
| You're right Jerry but the problem I have is, a lot of guitars don't have a "real clear" tone there. My Emmon's beat them all in that regard, especially the one I got from you Jerry. |
|
|
|
Al Terhune
From:
Newcastle, WA
|
Posted 5 Jan 2007 10:34 pm
|
|
| Mitch Ellis wrote: |
| The next day, when the bandage came off, I noticed something. When I played waaaay up the neck, I could now see the fret right behind the bar because my finger tip was gone! |
Sorry, Mitch, but when I read that, I laughed my rear off. Had to explain it to my wife, that you were actually excited about your finger being shortened, all for the love of pedal steel!
This is a good topic. Every time I practice (which isn't much nowadays with school) generally on my Sho Bud JB Frypan while sitting in the living room, I'm always conscious that I'm consistently below the 12th fret, and my vow is to "next time" spend the entire time above number 12...it ain't happenin'.
_________________
Al
My equipment:
One heck of a Wife
The ghost of a red Doberman
Several pairs of reading glasses strewn about |
|
|
|
David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
|
Posted 6 Jan 2007 3:38 am
|
|
I think in some ways it's easier to play up high - because the notes are closer together there's less distance to travel so you can get to them more quickly if you like to move the bar a lot. Listen to Dave Easley. Of course it's hard, that's what practice is for - you never hear of a classical violinist complain that the notes are too close together, or that they "can't see the frets" 
| Quote: |
| A little (or a LOT of) vibrato can help with both sustain and intonation. |
Vibrato and intonation are separate issues, I think. There is one type of vibrato that wavers above and below a center note and another type that wavers just up to and down from a set note, but the right note has to be, ummm, right in the first place.... if you're using vibrato to avoid practicing good intonation, YOU WILL NEVER GET IT. If you're into that trap, you'd be doing yourself a big favor to play without any vibrato at all for a few months to get rehabbed. 
When the notes are closer together (and your bar is light enough) you can vibrato fully between two notes, start with half-steps and move up to minor thirds, and doing it further down the neck. It's called a trill, and all the fiddle and sax and guitar players can do them - you can too, listen to Debashish Bhattacharya. |
|
|
|
Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
|
Posted 7 Jan 2007 12:59 am
|
|
Al,
Sometimes I laugh about it too. Hey....it's either laugh about it or cry about it:).
David, you mentioned the violinist. I've never thought about it like that. In a way, steel players "feel" for their notes, no matter what frett their at, much like violinist "feel" for theirs. The violin is one instrument, and the bow is another. The steel is one instrument, and the bar is another. Good intonation is soooo important! When I play, I don't use much vibrato, so I have to keep a close eye on my intonation. For me, having good intonation way up high is easier on a 24 1/4 scale, than it is on a 24 inch scale. Is there a "technical" reason for this, or is it "all in my head"?
Mitch |
|
|
|
David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
|
Posted 7 Jan 2007 4:43 am
|
|
| IMO the prime example of playing effectively above the twelfth fret would be John's instrumental version of "Hello Darlin'" where he actually plays past the fretboard and still maintains perfect intonation. If there ever was a reason to refer to this area as "Hugheyland", I believe this would be it. |
|
|
|
Ronald Sikes
From:
Corsicana, Tx
|
Posted 7 Jan 2007 11:05 am
|
|
Bar location is my biggest problem.Good advice from Joe Wright and great to see you participating on the forum,keep it coming our way.Look forward to seeing, and hearing you, in Dalllas at the Jamboree in March.
_________________
Show Pro #26 & #83,BJS bars,Stereo Steel,Tommy Huff cabs loaded with JBL D130's, Wampler pedals,NV112,NV400, Steelers Choice Seats |
|
|
|
Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
|
Posted 7 Jan 2007 11:37 am
|
|
the way i see it is:
i paid for all the fret's so i might as well use them
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
|
|
|
