Steel Guitar Mechanics

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

I bought a MSA S12 from Reese back in February of 1973 (my first MSA) I remember talking to him about some mechanical issue at the time. He encouraged me to roll up my sleeves & learn! Best advice I ever had on working on my own steel! I am always amazed at the players (probably new?) that have no idea what's going on underneath there! Similar to a guitar buddy I told one time to, "play the 3rd fret on your A string". He replied, I don't know which string that is? I couldn't believe it! He had played guitar in a band almost as long as I have, give or take a year or two. He said, "I know there are two E strings!" I feel every owner and player should have all the knowledge he or she needs to play and adjust anything the steel needs done. Maybe I'm wrong.......I guess I must be! It's not happening! Maybe we need better owner's manuals with each purchase or even a workshop or lesson on how to do what! Bud & John have a great website helping along these issues, great for them, but questions still exist out there! I thank Reese for helping me learn by doing! Bobbe told me more than once, "If you'd spent as much time on the top of that steel as you have underneath it, maybe you could have learned to play it by now!" That is also why I never got "hooked" on the great PP steels......my first attempt with my buddy's steel ended in disaster......he couldn't do it either! I decided right then not to try that again. I've owned way too many steels, but I'll be the first to admit I am not a PP mechanic. (nor do I want to be)

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Doug..good thread.I've been playing for a long time and just recently have I been able to do any work on my own steel guitar.I have two friends up here that have been helping me,they both play and are machinist types and after smacking me upside my head with various Sho-Buds,Blantons,and whatever else they find up here it's finally sinking in,I finally understand what makes these guitars tick...Now a push-pull Emmons... I aint that smart yet.

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

Find Alex Klick up in Fairbanks.....seems like he had a PP. Maybe he'd let you learn on it. When I tried my buddy's PP, I didn't know anything about the slack needed.....it was a mess after I got through with it! I didn't need to learn that much! All pull has always been enough for my needs! My ears can't tell the difference! ?? Others may feel the same......? Keyless is another matter......I'm still in love with them......"till death do us part!"
The sooner we learn to work on our own steels, the sooner we know how to work on our own steels! I'm trying to help some of my steeler friends......and then there are those who don't want to know! Someday they'll wish they knew!

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Doug:I haven't seen Alex in years he used to sit right in front of me at a little lounge up the street from where I live.He used to tell me that my hands weren't right yet,and I would ask him to sit in and he never would,Then I met his brother and he told me that Alex was never any good on that steel guitar,they would crack me up...nice guys.I have never played on a keyless I would like to check one out,Bill Stafford used to live up here,I might be the reason he moved..He would fix my guitars all of the time.
Happy New Year! I'm going to drive thru a snowstorm to entertain some crazy people.

Scott Howard · From: Georgetown, TN, USA

I think everyone needs a understanding of the underside also. I have completly gutted my MSA when I shortened it and installed the keyless tuner.(We also agree on that)
It is no big deal changing a tuning or buying a steel that doesn't have the same tuning you use When you can understand what is going on underneath.
It was a learning experiance on my PP Emmons but I bought a book and it turned out great too.
With the square and hex crossrods of today it is very easy to add pulls and change tunings without having to remove the crossrod.Give it a try .Make a good chart of what is on it and what holes the rods are in both changer and puller / bellcrank .Work the pedals and just watch what is happening. You are basicly controlling the movement needed to change the note on the string. All pedals and knee levers should have a good stop that can be adjusted . Also check out the picture of the puller and tuner on the info link. It tells the holes for travel and leverage needed to set it up.
I too have spent way too much time working on them instead of playing them. I would post a pictur of the keyless MSA but I don't know how. I also changed it to square crossrods and Fessenden pullers. Plays great and is a lot easier to work on.

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

Stu, I helped Alex learn the C6th tuning when we first met and he had the chops! We slowed down Jerry Byrd's recording of Slippery Elm so I could show him the notes & where to get them. I never had the technique to play it, but Alex did back in those days! He was the only one I ever knew that could play it then. Since those days (with Alex staying in Alaska) I have met another Jerry Byrd fan who plays the tune very well also. Charlie Coldiron winters in Leesburg FL, but we jam when he gets back up north in the summer.
Scott, you did a great upgrade on the MSA. Maybe one of the forum guys would post a picture for you. I'm glad you know HT work on your steels. We just have to be brave enough to try it & learn as we go! Not going to try a PP in my case.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Me, I'm at this point in time, fasinated with Shobuds. A couple good forum buddies have encouraged me to "roll up my sleeves" and get with it. Glad I am.
I enjoy resurrecting old shobuds, as well as playing them. Understanding what happens underneath has helped in my playing, as I have learned "why" which leads to "how".

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

A few years ago I bought a fairly new Sierra Session that had a few problems. The local steel repair person was backed up with work so I decided to tackle the job myself. I completely stripped the under carriage (pulled all rods, bellcranks, and shafts) and installed the factory pedal stop upgrade. I labled all parts, took photos and drew pictures as to where everything went. Needless to say, I learned alot and since have worked on all the steels I have owned. It just takes desire and patience...patience being the most important. If you take your time and think things through, you will be surprised at what you can accomplish.

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Doug..when It warms up I'll take a trip to Fairbanks to find Alex,I have a funny feeling that him,and his brother have been giving each other grief since they were kids?Tom..I would love to see some photos of your guitar

Mark Treepaz · From: Hamburg, New York USA

One of the best tools that we have at our disposal these days is the digital camera. Not only for working on our steel guitar, but on anything that requires disassembly and then reassembly. I've used it on several projects including automotive repairs (i.e. drum brakes) and household repairs. Saved me a lot of headaches when it came time to reassemble the project I had been working on. Also great when looking for a part that has no part number or description when an owners or repair manual is not available. Just shoot a picture of the part in the assembly, email it or print it and take it along to the parts store. I've done this countless times when working on my motorhome where parts manuals are almost non-existant. The same can be said when working on older steels (like mine) when "we don't do these things everyday".
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Gretsch Syncromatic Lap Steel, Fender Steel King amp, Bach Stradivarious 37 Trumpet, Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn, 68 Fender Precision Bass

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

I just finished working on a Carter Starter....."they can't be changed" Maybe they're not supposed to be, but this morning just to try it I switched the cross shafts (the bell cranks are welded in place) between the RKR & the LKR. They both have the "change of direction mechanism". I've always had my 4 & 8 lowers on my RKR.
I think it just happened to end up that way in the first place, but of course now, years later, I'm used to it & want to keep it that way.
I'm not suggesting that other Starter owners try it.....they probably don't need to. I still need to make a rod for the 8th string lower.... I think I'd better save the longer one from the LKR in case I need or want to go back someday. Rods have never been a problem for me to make and I'm not a machinist. I have the die for threading the rod.....I think it's 4/40. The way the Starters are set up at the factory makes the most sense to me.....with the one string lowers on the RK......you have less leverage there with your foot up on the volume pedal, so the single string changes (easier) are better on the right knees and the 2 string changes (stiffer) on the left knee.

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I use the process of elimination when working on guitars. It can only be a few things. I usually turn one upside down and locate the area where the problem is and go from there. One thing I recommend though is when a player buys a guitar whether it's new or not, check everything on it to make sure nothing is loose, such as bellcranks, pull rods, etc. Just a little TLC and a few drops of light oil can do wonders.

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

Doug: You know I like working on steel guitars, have changed a zillion of them around. I did the same thing to my first MSA D-10, took it completly apart & put it back together. the toughest ones were the ZB's & Klines to work on for me. What you could do in half hr with an MSA took an entire day on the Klines, but you had to love those Klines they were special.

Ernie Pollock Laughing

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Hey Doug,
How are you my friend ?....Happy New Year !!.....
I don't mess with my mechanic's as much as I play, but I sure like to know what's goin on under the hood !!.... I think that it's essential for a guy or gal to know how their steel works ...You would be in a real bind if your steel stopped working on a gig , and you didn't have clue what to look for or what to do ... I remember when I bought my Rus-ler ...It's very similar to a ZB ...You have to pull EVERYTHING appart to change the copedant on it ... It was my first steel guitar and I had no idea what my copedant was , or what a copedant was PERIOD !!...I knew that it was doing something I didn't want it to do, and that the George L pickups on it sounded very dark, and that the underside looked like somebody took laquer and cigarette smoke, mixed them together and spilled it all over the underside of the steel ... The cabinet also had some nice figured wood that you couldn't see since it was a dark brown and hid all the birdseye figure ... I told Stephen O'Brien who I bouht it from that I was gonna clean it up , and refinish it !!...His simple reply was WWWHHHHHAT ????....He thought I was CRAZY !!.... I took little containers, and labelled everything , and made notes of everything that I did ...I had no idea what the parts were called ....I named them gizmo, gizmo #2.... then I had whatyacallits ....thingamagiggers...You know , all the parts to a pedal steel !!... I bought new TrueTones ( this was years ago ) and restained the body, and cleaned and oiled everything , and put it all back together, with very few extra parts !!.... You're suppose to have extra parts leftover aren't you ?.....Ya don't need the added weight !!....I was SO proud of my accomplishment , and the steel ended up looking and sounding GREAT .... You just need to take notes, and be very mythodical about how you go about things ...Even with a P/P ...Sure it takes longer to do a P/P, but once you know how, and you take your time, you can do it !!... Doug, thanks for this thread ...Sorry for being so long winded ...I got caught up in the moment !!...Sincerely , Jim

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

LaVern Skarzenski, my steel budy/machinist (young retiree from GE in Erie PA) made me two pull rods for my Starter today and I'm a happy camper. I goofed and made the 1st rod too short, but LaVern didn't let me down and I'm pretty pleased with my first 2 piece D10! A Starter for E9th & a keyless Excel from Scotty for C6th. Don Curtiss really outdid himself, the parts I ordered Saturday came today! Wow! Customer service well, I guess.....
Scotty's music! yes, yes, yes! Just an old basketball cheer the girls used to do at my alma mater! Seriously we do appreciate being taken care of when we order something on the phone! Your
local music store usually doesn't even know what a steel is! Maybe Robert Randolph will change that someday and some of us old duffers can work part time helping a young generation learn steeling on a guitar instead of on the street!

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