Recording a live gig question !!!

Wade Branch · From: Weatherford, Texas, USA

Does anyone know what kind of equiptment you would need to record a live gig on to a CD ?

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

Yeah....a CD recorder.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

A multi track recorder and lots of decent mic's.

I've done some live recordings and even with 8 tracks it wasn't enough for Steel Bass, Lead, Fiddle, Rhythm Guitar, Drums and Vocals. I only had two tracks for Drums and I wound up mixing a couple of drum mics into one channel with an external mixer.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

If 'low fi' is acceptable, you can try a Mini Disc recorder with a spliter for using two long corded mics.
You can get an amazingly good sound quite easily.
Mic placement is the main trick, and if needed, attenuating the mic input/s properly.
A little practice should produce a great product.

Steve Alcott · From: New York, New York, USA

I used to record gigs with a stereo mic, a two channel preamp and a DAT machine. Mic placement is everything, particularly if you're dealing with a mix of stage and PA sound.You can get excellent results with a little trial-and-error.

David Doggett · Posted 14 Sep 2006 8:02 pm

As you can see from the above, there really are two choices. The half-assed amateur way to do it is with a two track recorder. There are some digital ones in the $300-$500 range (Tascam, Fosdex) that will record directly to CD. You put two good mikes out front and pick up whatever the band sounds like out front. If you do a good sound check to get the live balance good out front, yu can get a pretty decent recording this way. But other than adjusting the balance between the two mics, you can't adjust the individual levels of anything after the fact. You're stuck with whatever mix you had live.

The pro way to do it is with a 16 track recorder, with up to 16 mics on all the instuments, vocals, and several mics on the drums. You can mic everything through a 16 channel PA and hook the 16 track recorder to that. If your group is small, you might be able to get by with 8 or 12 tracks. It is not studio quality separation between the tracks, so there is some bleed through. This means you can't completely cut any tracks out. But to some extent you can adjust the levels of each track after the fact to get a better mix.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

My minimum is :

A Mini Disc.
The Aiwa that can leave the input volume settings
intact when changing discs or shutting it off is good,
(the Sony's drop your settings when you change discs.. darned stupid.
I had one, lost in a flo9oded club last fall,
and I won't replace it.
Still looking for the AIWA.)

A small 2 channel idealy tube preamp. with phantom power
like a Presonus Bluetube.
But any decent 12AX7 2 channel tube pre will do.

The tubes will add some warmth to your digital recording.

2 good condensor mics, NOT vocal mics.

I like the Earthworks SR071's
but they are likely out of budget.

But this is NOT the place to be cheap!!!
bad mics into a good recorder and good preamp only sound like bad mics.
Great mics into a marginal preamp
will sound like great mics, just with
a bit more distortion and hiss.

Basically as flat a curve as you can afford from 25hz to 20k hz.

AKG, Sennhieser, Rode, Audio Technica all make good versions.

The above system can allow you to do demos and salable live show copies that won't
make you wince when listening,
IF you guys play well live,
and the room is good sounding.

I have done live shows recorded with just stereo pairs,
and people have been happy to buy them,
and no returns.

Also stereo condensor mics can work well,
but limit your placement possibilities.

With two mics you can place them along
walls
and run longer wires, one for each side of the room.

But a stereo mic will want to be front and center.. ideally.
You CAN place a stereo mic,
anywhere YOU like the sound, of course.
And it is the simplest setup.

If you just want to hear what the band sounds like live ;
The bare minimum is a minidisc recorder
and the battery powered Sony stereo condensor mic,
with miniplug direct to the minidisc.
Weak in the bass responce, but you'll hear your show back.

Lynn Oliver · From: Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.

"The pro way to do it is with a 16 track recorder, with up to 16 mics ...so there is some bleed through."

I don't care for the phase cancellation (comb filtering) that happens with multiple mics, so unless it is possible, and desirable, to close mic each source I would try to use as few mics as possible. It is after all a live recording...

------------------
Lynn Oliver http://www.ryegrassband.com

[This message was edited by Lynn Oliver on 14 September 2006 at 11:08 PM.]

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

kind of a loaded question..

first , what is the purpose of the recording ?

To make a DEMO master for a CD ?

or

Just to hear what the heck ya sound like with a half decent recording..

I use an EDIROL R-1 with a Sony Stereo mic at every gig...

The R-1 records in 6 different MP3 modes and 2 different .wav modes. It transfer direct to the PC via USB. I don't save everythng but I listen to everything. A 1 gig memory card can record probably 3 or 4 full gigs...

this is fast, simple and easy..and not all that much cash..The recorder was $350 and the mic another $75. The R-1 does have on board mics that can be used in a jam. The size of the R-1 is basically pocket size. AA Batteries or AC power.

Now if you want to record the gig for a formal purpose..you need a bunch more gear...

and someone else to monitor the action while you play..

once the files are on your PC, burn away...

good luck

by the way, I have gotten some pretty fair recordings..some we are considering for a DEMO CD...

good luck

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 15 September 2006 at 05:50 AM.]

Steve Alcott · From: New York, New York, USA

I'm pretty sure at least one of my half-assed amateur recordings was released commercially by the client who hired me to do the recording.

Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

http://www.archive.org/details/dalewatson2005-04-06.flac16

I don't know who posted this link originally, but check this out... not bad for a 'budget' setup.

I believe the stereo pair of mics and a DAT or something similar can make pretty good recordings, IF the players are good and know how to blend on stage. That's clearly the case here...

Jay Fagerlie · From: Lotus, California, USA

Lynn,
You can minimize the comb filtering on your recordings by utilizing the 3 to 1 rule when setting up your mics.
In a nutshell: When two mics are going to be picking up the same source, make sure the second mic is at least 3 times the distance from the source as the first mic is.
It does help
Jay

Steve Alcott · From: New York, New York, USA

For whoever is interested, I used an Audio Technica AT 825 stereo condenser mic, a Symetrix mic preamp with phantom power, and an Aiwa DAT recorder.

[This message was edited by Steve Alcott on 15 September 2006 at 10:41 AM.]

[This message was edited by Steve Alcott on 15 September 2006 at 10:43 AM.]

Lynn Oliver · From: Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.

"...the 3 to 1 rule "

Otherwise known as close micing... ;-)

------------------
Lynn Oliver
http://www.ryegrassband.com

Jay Fagerlie · From: Lotus, California, USA

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I used a Symetrix SX202 dual mic pre for years.
With Sennheiser 441,s or Crown PCM flat mics.

I did symphonies, and bluegrass, and assorted rock and funk live recordings.

The largest was Caramina Burana in NYC's second
largest church, up near Lincoln center.

95 players including myself on contrabasse,
and 450 singers.. YES 450.
A 545 person orchestra.

I got it all in with 2 mics, (PZM's)
except the child choir,
who sounded rather eterial
being placed in a nave behind the soloist mic.

But I choose the small tube preamp before it if posssible.

There are many good recording platforms, the R-1 sounds intersting,
though I haven't seen one.

Still the bottom line is DO NOT
scrimp on Microphones.

All basic recording systems are gonna give you
pretty much what you put in these days.
But it's the MICS that do the putting in...

The Dale Watson stuff sounds good,
decent room and great band.

Another more esoteric way to record
and have some control later is M-S matric/Blumlien.

This requieres a matrix decoder plug-in, like Waves,
for your work station,
and one Cardiod, and one figure 8 mic.

You put the figure 8 crossways
or 90° across the room NOT aimed at the band,
and the single cardiod aimed front, at the band.
Both are inces apart, ideally with all
3 capsles at the same height.

When they are recombined (essentially out of phase),
a simple changing of the relative levels
gives you a change in the stereo image
of the recording AFTER the fact.

Pretty cool, if you have the plug in and figure 8 mic.

The best simple recording system is a
Calorec Soundfield mic (4 capsules, into 4 channels)
and a digital 4 channel Narga recorder.
Monitoring through the Calorec matrix decoder.

Glorious, changable after the fact, live sound.
But expect to sell your SUV to get this system.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 15 September 2006 at 10:18 PM.]

Larry Robbins · From: Fort Edward, New York

Wade,
Be sure to check out the Forums new "Recording" section. Still pretty new but I'll bet that soon it will be chock full of goodies for all of us with questions!

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

My key to easy live recording is to do a stereo recording using two of the best mikes you have (hopefully matched as much as possible). I've had good luck positioning this right in front of the stage. Then take a mono line out from the PA. Record using either a computer interface or one of the boxes mentioned. Mixing is simple, put the line out from the PA (which will usually be mostly vocals) center, and hard pan the stereo mikes.

The live cut from my Unsanctified Gospel Revival CD was recorded exactly this way (that's Darrick Campbell on this excerpt):

Simple live recording

------------------
www.tyack.com

[This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 17 September 2006 at 10:30 AM.]

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