Multiple Pickups

Wally Taylor · From: Hardin, Kentucky, USA

OK, I know this is probably gonna open a can of worms, but why do steel guitar makers not offer steels with at least 2 pickups and tone controls? I know this subject has been somewhat covered before, but I am interested in hearing what steel guitar makers have to say. Are they afraid we won't buy their guitars? Are we so stuck on tradition that we as players won't play a guitar with 2 pickups and tone controls? Do we think that tone controls on the amp is all we need? If the six string players followed that same thinking, we would still be playing Broadcasters and Melody Makers that had single pick ups. So, why do we limit ourselves to just one pickup on the steel?
Something to think about.
Wally

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Emmons guitars have a tone control.

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Sustain on a steel Guitar is preferably obtained WITHOUT distortion. (Usually)
The greater "Illusion" of sustain is achieved with a single pick-up close to the bridge or changer. The transient vs tail ratio is closer.
Multiple pick-ups spaced far apart increase the transient ratio and therefore the sustained note "APPEARS" to be shorter.

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Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Two pickups is a very viable option.

Wally Taylor · From: Hardin, Kentucky, USA

Thanks Baz, I never heard that before. I thought there was a reason for the pickup being located so far back, but did not know why. Learn something new on the forum everyday!

Thanks,
Wally

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Wally, my opinion is just that, MY opinion. But, just look at the top steel manufacturer's models. The definative sound of the steel (as the public percieve it) has been pre-determined by the past recordings made in general with the major manufacturers guitars. Of course there's an exception to every rule, but that doesn't discount the rule, only serves to strengthen it.

There are guitars with multiple pick-ups but the trend for two or more seems to be with those seeking to sound diferent.
Also, do not count the Fender Stringmaster as a twin pick-up guitar, it's not really, it has an 'opened up' humbucker.

Tone and volume controls are the norm on lap steels whilst the pedal steels tend to have as little as possible between the pick-up and the output, presumably to minimise tonal degredation that would be more noticeable with the higher impedance pick-ups used on them.

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[This message was edited by basilh on 03 December 2006 at 08:21 AM.]

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

My two main guitars have multiple pickups.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

"The greater "Illusion" of sustain is achieved with a single pick-up close to the bridge or changer. The transient vs tail ratio is closer.
Multiple pick-ups spaced far apart increase the transient ratio and therefore the sustained note "APPEARS" to be shorter"

Baz, I wouldn't debate the point at all because I've never researched that one - but it's the first time I've ever read it. IT seems to go completely counter to research and thinking regarding the nature of sustain and overlapping portions of string vibration at the multiple pickup points on 6-string guitars, and there would be no theoretical difference with steels.

I'm really curious where that theory came from. It *is* interesting, and I want to look into it further (although honestly I don't buy it, I can't say it's wrong without some serious study).

The "appears" to be shorter is my main concern - "appears" - how? You either have signal, or you don't.

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Jeff Agnew · From: Dallas, TX

Why? Dunno. I can only assume the manufacturers feel there isn't enough market interest to justify the tooling or assembly costs. Which means it's really the chicken/egg conundrum. They don't make them because there isn't a clamor for them. Players aren't clamoring for them because they aren't readily available.

Interestingly, I had a D-10 Franklin in the late 80s that I played on the road for about a year. It had (to the best of my fading recollection) dual Lawrence humbuckers on both necks. Might have been 705s. They were wired functionally like a Strat; I could have one or both on, in or out of phase. There were mini-toggles on the side of the neck that controlled pickup selection and phase. This was in addition to the neck selector switch in the common location.

As with all Franklins I've encountered, it played beautifully and I experienced no sustain issues of the sort Baz mentioned. The tone (in standard pickup settings) was certainly competitive with the LeGrande and push/pull guitars I was playing during that period.

Initially, I used the out-of-phase setting a lot because it was so unique for steel. After a while, that (pardon the pun) wore thin and I used it sparingly. But I was playing a lot of country and swing. Someone playing more country-rock, blues, pop, etc. might feel differently.

On E9th, I ended up using either the bridge pickup alone or with both on (in phase) the majority of the time. On C6th, I used either the neck pickup alone or with both on (in phase).

I had thought the extra pickups might interfere with my right-hand position but after an hour or so of playing it became a non-issue. I was able to go between the Franklin and my Emmons guitars with no real adjustments.

I often wondered if this particular Franklin was one of Paul's old guitars because it was fully loaded and had obviously been an experiment. To my limited knowledge, a multi-pickup model was not a common option on Franklins at the time.

I wish I had that guitar today, but not strictly because of the multiple pickups. I wouldn't mind having the tonal flexibility but it's not something for which I'd pay a lot extra. Obviously, others may feel differently. Still, it would certainly be interesting to have that as an option from current manufacturers.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Baz, that does make sense based on what you presented.

FWIW I certainly can tell the difference it sounds via pickup combinations and tone/volume settings on my two-pickup 400, and Sneaky always said the same thing - there's a huge difference between the tone of the bridge pickup and the tone of the "neck" pickup, and the two combined.

When you use those tools in combination with the tone/volume circuit (similar to a Tele circuit, but with 1 meg pots instead of 250k) you can get an extremely wide range of different - and usable - tones.

MY next step is to install a push-pull volume pot and use it as a phase switch. There's also the possibility of going to a 4-way pickup switch, allowing for a choice of parallel (the normal route) or series positions;putting the pickups in series gives you a big, greasy, fat midrangy tone that drives right through a mix like a Mack truck.

I think, though, that most players who want (or who understand) the variables available with multiple pickups and guitar-mounted volume/tone circuits (or outboard boxes that duplicate them, with the volume having a different use/sound than a floor pedal) are either playing alternative styles or are former guitar players used to more than one tone on a guitar.

For most traditional players, it's probably a "why would I want that?" question; hence the makers don't get many (if any) requests for it.

I do think, though, that if multiple pickup-and-controls guitars were made as a standard issue, almost all players would find and exploit the versatility of them.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

I'd wnat 4 pick ups for my 12 strings... no joke 4!
1 for strings 1-3, another for strings 4 to 6, one for string 7 to 9 and a 4 th one for stings 10 to 12. Each with it's individual tone control and then bundle the signal into one output into the amp.
Why? Because I think that thin strings need to be equalized differently than thik ones.

If somebody know somebody who can build me A pu like that... please let me know.

Thanks... J-D.

universal_tuning@yahoo.com

David Doggett · Posted 4 Dec 2006 8:35 am

I'm with J.D. I'd settle for two staggered pups, one for strings 1-6 and one for strings 6-12. I'd want the 1-6 pup further from the changer to mellow out the high strings a little, and the 7-12 pup near the changer to give them more bite. That would neatly separate the wounds from the unwounds for me. With one pup, when I turn the amp highs down to keep the high strings from being shrill, my low strings turn to mud. If I turn up the highs to give some definition to the low strings, the high strings get too shrill. A single pup slanted reverse of the usual 6-string slant might help. But Paul Franklin said he once tried that and it didn't make much difference. So I'm thinking you need enough distance that you need two pups.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

After playing with Derek Trucks for a number of gigs last year, I spent some time analyzing why his tone was kicking my rear so conclusively. It turns out one of the elements (besides his talent) was that Derek spends most of his time with just the neck pickup on his Gibson SG. As an experiment, I added a Gibson humbucker to one of my English Electronic lap steels (long scale Supro/Valco) in exactly the same position that an SG neck pickup is located. This was a phenomenally successful experiment. While I still love the sound of the bridge pickup (one of those string through Valco pickups) the neck pickup gives me a whole new world of sonic possibilities, and allows me to get within striking distance of that sweet Derek Trucks tone.

I definitely would love to have that on pedal steel, and am right now trying to figure out how to retrofit a second pickup on one of my Franklins without doing structural changes.

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

I've often wondered myself why PSGs don't have multiple pickups. After all, on 6-strings the difference in tone is huge.

One issue that hasn't been mentioned is how differently the pickup reads the string if it's under a vibrational node. As far as I can tell, the neck pickup on a Gibson is under a node in the 5-7 fret range, and for a Strat the neck PU is about the 1-5 fret range.

As for staggered pickups, the Precision bass uses them, though I never saw a discussion as to why Leo found it necessary.

I'd certainly be interested. More colors to play with.

-eric

Roger Edgington · From: San Antonio, Texas USA

It seems to work on the Fender stringmaster. It could be a fun thing to play with. You could play with positioning and like and disslike pups just for starters.

Marty Smith · From: California

My Bigsby T8 has one pickup and my 61 Sho Bud D8 have one pickup ,the steels that sound best to me seem to always have only one pickup. My Wright also has one pickup.
I had a Gibson console 530 and I never liked it. It had a 3 row type of a pickup on it.

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