Age Discrimination

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

A friend of mine just replied to an ad for a pedal steel player to join a country rock band. No proviso's or anything. When he rang to enquire about the position he was asked his age. When he said 50, the guy on the other end said "Sorry way too old for us, we're all in our late 30's/early 40's". That got me to thinking. I'm 57, and I hope the world doesn't end at 50. I still play out regularly and enjoy it and in my own humble opinion I feel I am playing better now than I ever have.

My friend is a superb player and it was the band's loss and not his. I could understand things if they were a real young band where image is important, but they are into middle age too. Why is age such an issue???

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

Like the pot calling the kettle black...
In my opinion, early forties is damn close to fifty..

Steve Hitsman · From: Waterloo, IL

I sit in occasionally with an alt-country band. At 55, I'm at least 20 years older than any of the other guys and while they're pretty cool, ain't none of 'em as hip as the old guy.

Mark Treepaz · From: Hamburg, New York USA

"Early 40's" verses 50! C'mon! Same age group as far as I'm concerned. Obviously amateurs (or amateur thinkers) who are more concerned with superficial crap before they even hear the guy play. You're right. Their loss. I doubt that they'll get very far anyway with that mode of thinking. How stupid!

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Sho-Bud LDG, Gretsch Syncromatic Lap Steel, Bach Stradivarious 37 Trumpet, Getzen Fluglehorn, Fender Precision Bass (pre-CBS)

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

I knew Moby Dick when he was just a minnow. I knew Madam Butterfly when she was just a moth. If age matters that much to the band, it probably would not be any fun anyway. My advise is to BAIL OUT if you are not having fun.

Paul Norman · From: Washington, North Carolina, USA

I guess 69 yrs. is completely out of the
question. I had rather play Hank than
rock anyway.

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

Whats the big deal.I was over 50 before i finally figured out which side of the steel i was supposed to sit on.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I think some people are reluctant to work with people who are much older or youngfer than them because they fear there will be too great a difference socially and musical tatse wise. But yeah , thats kind of more releveant only in the younger age brackets and with other styles of music like rock where if you are five years difffernt than someone else the bands you listen to are likely to be different as well. I agree ithis case, this band sounds like they have no clue whats what and it is totally their loss, your friend is lucky not to have gotten involved with them actually.

Lavelle Pierce · From: huntsvile,ar 72740

well if you think old i just turned 68 i think . i had stroke about 4 yrs ago and i had to guit working . i still work on anything around the house i just added a room up stares and put shingles . i play my steel every day some times morning and nite . the storyis. when you dont have much money you can do a lots things. my mom died at 96 my grand ma was 98 when she died so i hope i will follow her tracks . thanks

Mike Shefrin · Posted 29 Sep 2006 3:00 pm

That's the coolest thing I've heard all day.

Mike Winter · From: Portland, OR

Dumb. Most of the best steel players around here are over 50. If age is that important to them, he's better off without them...and they're probably worse off without him.

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Mike
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Blue Moon Highway
(Country Music...and then some.)
www.bluemoonhighway.com

ZB Custom S-10 (#0509)

[This message was edited by Mike Winter on 29 September 2006 at 04:28 PM.]

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

great thread!
my grandmother just turned 105 last week.
I'm going to buy a case of picks.

we all can rock at our ages. those just a tad older than I invented it!
same with country, folk, bluegrass,jazz, etc.
I believe the majority, deep down inside, venerate those older players.
at 55 yrs I still play and hope to start another band. my best mate and I came to the decision that young audiences in clubs and bars generally like rock bands to have young dude musicians.
however,in country bands, age isnt a factor.
I know, generalizations.

owning and playing guitars will always be part of me. my hope is to always strive for musicianship.
and when I can no longer hold my guitar
I pray I can still tap my foot.

Pete Young · From: Quebec, Canada

I guess Buddy would be to old to cut it as well. Old age is bad It leaves us with old men like Buddy and Lloyd and John Hughy and a couple of others. I guess we should all hang up our picks LOL

Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

I just turned 67 in August( by the way-- no one wished me happy birthday on this forum, I know I'm not one of the top guns

). I'm in a new country band,the age is from 25 to me.I've been playing steel as many years as the age of the bass player and drummer added together. Been working with them over 5 years now. They always say to me and over the mic, the only reason I'm in the band is for the senior discount I get at Denny's for the band! Joe
www.willowcreekband.com

Pete Young · From: Quebec, Canada

Happy Birthday Joe Its only A month late and at out age, whats a month

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

As much as I hate it, I do understand it in some circumstances.

When we moved here near Mexico City, I started checking online on all the musician bulletin board websites for musicians wanted; not the best way to find work as a musician here either, since computers are not as common here as in the U.S., but music stores don't have bulletin boards here and when you don't know anyone, what can you do.

I found many ads for "guitarist wanted, 20-30 years old" etc. It got to be pretty darn depressing.

I found one that I thought was very funny, it said "guitarist wanted, 15-18 years old, no beginners". haha.

I'm 51 but pass for late thirties-early forties all the time. I know that won't last forever, but even if I didn't, it's still insulting to be considered too old to play music... of course I don't think I want to play with teenagers either....

Last year I did try answering one ad, in kindof a sneaky way. They specified some age like 25-35, and I answered their ad. After they seemed interested I told them "oh shoot, I just noticed the age limit in your ad.... I'm 50, does that matter? (heheheheh...) The guy emailing me said "nah, that's fine...." and he sent me a song list, I learned the tunes and then he never called or answered any more emails regarding the audition/rehearsal. Oh well.

Where I understand it, is in a band of quite young people whose young "cool" (or whatever they say now) image is important to them. A band of 20-somethings might feel funny with someone old enough to be their dad in the band with them. I understand that, if that's more important to them than the quality of the musician's playing...

Here in Mexico, age discrimination is rampant in all occupations and one of the things they need to solve. I saw a sign on a fence in front of a milk plant, "Hiring truck drivers, ages 20-35". Gimme a break. Over 35 is too old to drive a truck?

I'm in an 8-piece band now and I'm the oldest, they're a family band (good band too!) and the youngest is 22, the oldest (not counting myself) is about 37 and then there's me at 51. They don't care at all, treat me with respect but not like a Grampa (which I am, ha).

Any kind of discrimination stinks.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 29 September 2006 at 08:52 PM.]

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

Hey Joe. Now you know why I'm not coming back for the jam. I'm 64. Don't know if I should hang around with you "older" folks.

By the way. Say hello to Bill Woodfield for me. We used to "hang" in the old days.

Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

Ken I will say hi, we play tomorrow nght at the Sherman hotel. That is till 2am we play,way past you old people's bed time
Pete thank you

. Joe

[This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 29 September 2006 at 07:16 PM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

That band has an idiot for a point man.
At least have A LISTEN,
not a blanket; too old...

I am 50, Rick and Roland are 36 and 37,
and the drummer for most of the last 4 months
was 12...

No typo Ris, Roland's son, is 12
and plays brilliantly on percussion box.
To the point that drummers our age don't want
to sit in on the box, because he is too good.
Heard that twice.

Now if I can play with guys in their middle 30's
and a kid 1/4 of my age, and we all get on fine,
and work the rooms well.

Then what's the difference how old we are?

Ken, that guy on the phone is an idiot,
and your buddy likely wouldn't have stayed long with the band anyway.

Water offn' a ducks back, dude!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 29 September 2006 at 07:41 PM.]

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

ain't none o them young hunkophiles as good lookin' an' sexy as me!!!

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Hey Ken, Just tell them they are probably too young to be very good musicians, being they are ONLY in their early forties, but you might give them a chance, anyways. Tell them the best pickers you know are older yet, than you are, and keep getting better each year! Ask them if they plan to quit playing when they reach fifty. Of course, you probably won't get the gig, but at least you'll shove their attitudes up where there ain't much sunshine! HA!!

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

There are a lot of angles to this. First, if they want a pedal steel player, good luck. I don't see a lot of people under 40 or even 50 playing the instrument, and most of the really good ones have been playing for a long time. I guess I wouldn't want to be playing with anybody dumb enough to dismiss potential candidates purely because they were 10-15 years older.

Second, unless it's purely a pickup group of independent contractors, age discrimination is illegal. An bona fide employer could be subject to an age discrimination lawsuit, unless the age factor falls under certain guidelines: http://www.dol.gov/oasam/regs/statutes/age_act.htm

Third, I just don't get it. I have played with several bands with members lots younger than I am - even 20-30 years younger is no big deal, especially for a steel player. In fact, in most bands I see, the steel player is usually the oldest member, and often a decade or more older.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

That is a DUMB band, that turned you down for being 50 without even hearing you play. With that kind of attitude, they couldn't have been very successful.

I had just moved to Phoenix and put on my tayler topper wig and went to a jam session to get connected. I always wore my wig playing out. It helps to make you look younger.

At the bar, one of the guys asked me if I would go over to his house for a Rehearsal with his band. Ray and Pete two brothers , Ray ,lead was 25 Pete ,bass,was 27. The drummer was 18 and had long hair to his shoulders. I was 50, but never told them my age. They thought I was 35 with the wig. That was the "Country Counts" I played with 3 or 4 nights a week in one club for 2 years and we backed up Tex Williams at the Governers ball. He liked our band .

18 to 50. what a spread. We played every thing from "Midnight Hour". "Proud Mary'" to Ray Price, Mel Tillis, Misty, "By the time I get to Phoenix",etc. There is a picture of us on my Website. They were a great band, and we got along fine.

I wonder what would have happened if I said I was "50". Knowing these guys, I don't think it would have mattered. We became friends over time....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

I play lead guitar and steel in a Christian rock band. I turned 63 this past Monday. The majority of the bands 7 members are under 20 yrs. old. Our rehersals last about 21/2 hours. At the end of the rehersal, I'm the only on still standing. The others are sitting on the floor or hanging off a stool/chair...NO stamina! Ha!

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