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Topic: Steels manufactured on company time. |
Lyle Clary
From:
Decatur, Illinois, KC9VCB
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Posted 4 Sep 2006 6:46 pm |
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I played an owner built steel guitar last night that was made on company time ,with company materials and tools. This is the second one I know of. The one last night played excellent. Have any of you had similar experiences? Please be discreet. Alias' only. Like uh "I knew this guy that built a steel on company time". Catch my drift?
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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure
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Bob Hickish
From:
Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Sep 2006 7:06 pm
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| edit [This message was edited by Bob Hickish on 11 September 2006 at 05:26 PM.] |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 4 Sep 2006 7:50 pm
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| Quote: |
| I played an owner built steel guitar last night that was made on company time ,with company materials and tools. This is the second one I know of. The one last night played excellent. Have any of you had similar experiences? Please be discreet |
I don't understand what you mean by owner built guitar. Was it built by the owner of the company?
[This message was edited by HowardR on 04 September 2006 at 08:57 PM.] |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 5:17 am
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He means was the guitar built while punched in on the clock.
Drew
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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden, Derby and Fender guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 5:59 am
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| Years ago several high quality deer rifles got right to the final stages of manufacture before they were found out about in the Corning machine shop. |
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Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 6:32 am
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Is this at all like the great Cash song where the guy builds a car "one piece at a time/and it didn't cost me a dime"...?
Given the size of most steel building operations that I know of i.e. one man in a shop, I don't understand what the question is here. |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 7:45 am
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One of the perks I got for being plant manager at Dekley was being allowed to build my own Custom Signature guitar partly on company time. 
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Jim Smith jimsmith94@comcast.net
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 9&9=-
-=Emmons D-12 push pull 9&9=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-1080
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Pete Young
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 7:47 am
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| My second and third steels were built that way or close. We had an apprentice machine shop where I worked and the the all the guys including the forman were working on parts for my guitars The foundry also cast a few parts for me I still have some here tho they are out of date with todays steels |
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Les Pierce
From:
Shreveport, LA
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 7:49 am
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No steels...but a lot of engine rebuilding and car/truck painting stories throughout the years.
If you play steel, and work where there is a fully stocked machine shop, it's bound to happen to some degree.
I'll bet it doesn't happen as much, anymore, because of the availability of previously difficult parts to find. You can get stuff for home use, that used to be available only through wholesalers to legitimate businesses.
I've done some small repairs on the job, back in my shift working days, but never tried to take on an entire project.
Les
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Strat,Tele
Dekley S-10
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 8:40 am
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| If this is about an employee building something for themselves, while being paid by the company to build for the company, using materials paid for by the company, without the permission of the company,....it's theft.....is it not? |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 9:56 am
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kinda like me posting here now from work?
just kidding. I agree if you are taking materials without permission, thats basically theft. Still , i imagine in your typical machine shop lots of "non official" stuff gets made...if its your job t sit and type on a computer all day, chances are your gonna type one or two personal things, emails, grocery list etc. ...if your working with metal all day, chances are your gonna make the occasional goof off item, or part you actually need for something...human nature...not nedcessarily theft, depends on the scale and what if any arrange,ents are made I guess. grey area...
[This message was edited by Ben Jones on 05 September 2006 at 11:01 AM.] |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 11:16 am
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Made a few parts for a 47 Desoto,motor mounts, disc brake brackets, etc, etc. PSG parts?(who me?) Saterday, the boss goes home early. Keyhead, endplates, etc...  [This message was edited by Bill Ford on 05 September 2006 at 12:23 PM.] [This message was edited by Bill Ford on 05 September 2006 at 12:24 PM.] |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 5:03 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...if its your job t sit and type on a computer all day, chances are your gonna type one or two personal things, emails, grocery list etc. |
I had a secretary who just did that. I fired her for doing just that. Wouldn't take her back either.
As the owner of a company I find it intolorable to accept theft....and it is nothing less than that.
It seems that there are people who think that it's ok. I'm sure anyone with that mentality has never owned a company or been in business for themselves.
| Quote: |
| Saterday, the boss goes home early. |
He must trust you. His mistake.
I have experienced all varieties of in house theft in my 30 years of business. It's all the same as far as I'm concerned.
I hope that all of the owners of steel guitar companies are reading this thread.
[This message was edited by HowardR on 05 September 2006 at 06:08 PM.] |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 5:34 pm
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| I'm the CFO of an Electrical Engineering company. I often use the company's Laser Center (a $1,000,000 machine) to cut parts, but then, the company CEO and owner is a friend of mine and also a musician. (He's played with the Kingston Trio and the New Christy Minstrels.) |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 6:55 pm
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Having permission to use company time & materials is one thing.
My employees either get merchandise & services at my cost or free, depending on the item, if they come to me and ask for it.
Anything taken without out my knowledge & permission, or made on company time without my knowledge and permission is immediate dismisal. No ifs, ands, or buts. |
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Les Pierce
From:
Shreveport, LA
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Posted 5 Sep 2006 7:25 pm
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HowardR,
"no ifs, ands, or buts"...This doesn't seem like a prudent way to do business. As you should know, keeping an employee over a long period of time is quite a serious investment to just throw away without making an attempt at resolving the issue in any way, shape or form.
If that is you company policy, then it must apply equally to all that work for you. You have no choice but to dismiss the individual for any violation no matter how big or small..."no ifs, ands, or buts".
Not me. I am a firm believer that most people will become better employees when given the chance to redeem themselves. A little one on one goes a long way.
Les |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 6 Sep 2006 3:55 am
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| Quote: |
| "...This doesn't seem like a prudent way to do business |
The proof is in the pudding...
I'm tolerant in every other way except when it comes to dishonesty.
My employees are well informed from the get go, in no uncertain terms, that theft and dishonesty is grounds for immediate dismisal. It's their choice. I absolutely cannot work with somebody who has no repect for myself or my company.
As I stated, I have experienced 30 years of my buiness and this has come to be my policy.
[This message was edited by HowardR on 06 September 2006 at 05:01 AM.] |
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Henry Nagle
From:
Santa Rosa, California
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Posted 6 Sep 2006 7:08 am
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Howard is right. There is not too much gray here. I'm sure it's easier not to think about it when you're working for a large company. The ethic is the same though... : "Do unto others... etc"
My father used to work on the Golden Gate Bridge as an ironworker. It was a maintenence job so there was a lot of downtime. I remember he made a bumper for his pickup. He made it out of scrap metal (which isn't exactly worthless) on time that would otherwise have been spent playing cards in the shed. |
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Mike Weirauch
From:
Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
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Posted 6 Sep 2006 7:25 am
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| Howard is totally correct! Who pays for the materials used by the employee? Who paid for the machines he would have to use and who pays for the electricity? It comes down to taking something that isn't yours. When you take something that isn't yours without permission, it's called theft. |
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Tony Smart
From:
Harlow. Essex. England
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Posted 6 Sep 2006 11:55 am
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HowardR - Have you never made a personal phone call from work that has been charged to the company's phone bill?
Just a thought. |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 6 Sep 2006 12:12 pm
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quote:
HowardR - Have you never made a personal phone call from work that has been charged to the company's phone bill?
Just a thought.
Even if he did, it is still wrong. Just because "everyone does it", doesn't mean it is right. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2006 12:15 pm
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sounds like a very unpleasant and antagonistic work environment to me.
Can we breathe the company air?...bask in your air conditioning? |
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Pat Burns
From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2006 1:13 pm
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| ...and then we wonder why all the jobs are leaving the country. |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 6 Sep 2006 1:18 pm
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I have been on both sides of the fence.
There is very little that I regret in my 56 years.
When I was in my early twenties, I worked for a company, for 4 years while I was in school. I was the manager. I thought that since I worked hard and did my job well, that I was entitled to certain materials.
I had a position of responsibility and trust.
I was treated well by my employer. He was a hard working and honest man.
To this day I am ashamed of myself. I always have that to remind me of what is right,and what it wrong.
There is no doubt in my mind which is which.
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Tim Bridges
From:
Hoover, Alabama, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2006 1:50 pm
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Even in todays "flex time" job market, manufacturing operations can not tolerate loss of time, mistakes, rework, elevated cost due to overtime and work efficiency. I also own my own business(s) and will not tolerate, unless an emergency, personal phone calls, cell phones, emails, etc. from hourly employees. It reduces my yield and increases my costs in every way. Salaried employees are evaluated differently. It's goal and productivity related. Most of my salaried employees work 50-60 hours/week and are compensated well if they perform. It's not a prejudice towards hourly employees. BUT, if you have ever owned, operated and managed a business, you do it objectively. We are an ISO 9001:2000 company. We monitor, measure and take corrective & prventative actions to avoid quality related issues and to meet customer rerquirements AND to make a profit.
HowardR, you make perfectly good business sense to me. I allow flexibility, but it is consistant with policies. And yes, I make personal calls, look at the forum and do alot of personal things during business hours. I also work 60-70 hours/week. After all, I took the risk and it is my investment to manage. Turnover is not desirable, but neither is a thief, or non productive employee. Yes, we profit share. |
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