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Topic: Nitro Cellulose finish - temperature & transport |
HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 17 Dec 2005 10:34 am |
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Carroll Benoit has finished a resophonic guitar for me (and that will be a whole other thread) with a nitro cellulose finish.
When it ships, it will be sent by UPS Next Day Air (from Texas), morning delivery. I'm having it shipped this way because this is a one of a kind and I don't want it in trucks or warehouses any more than possible.
My question is about temperature. It will be in the air as cargo and subjected to low temperatures for a few hours. The temperature here in NY is high 30's and lows are low 30's. It is packed in a Calton case and boxed, inulated as much as possible.
Is there a possible danger to the finish? I know about extreme differences in temp and also rapid changes in temp. I'm trying to ship when there's not a lot of difference between highs & lows.
Thoughts, please? |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2005 10:40 am
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Most nitro finishes that are new still have some elasticity in them. It is just according to the kind of lacquer he used and how much plastisicer is in it.
Usually lacquer checking will occur in cured hardened finishes that are years old. Ask the builder and see what he used and what chance the temp could crack it. |
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Mark Vinbury
From:
N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2005 11:01 am
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Howard-My experience with nitro is the finish is pliable enough to expand and contract with the temperature and won't crack especially if it is new and the temp change is gradual.In other words minutes not seconds.
Also it is probably applied conservativly and therefore would be thinner and more flexible than some heavily coated factory guitars.
[This message was edited by Mark Vinbury on 19 December 2005 at 08:51 AM.] |
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Ron Simpson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2005 11:33 am
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Elderly Instruments up in Michigan suggests that the package not be opened until a few hours have passed to gradually let the instrument adjust to room temperature. This does test one's will power, but it sounds like good idea.
My son has worked for UPS for many years, and tells me that "next day" packages are hand carried from point to point. They never ride the conveyer belt like the "ground" parcels. Although very expensive, this is a wise way to have a valuble instrument sent.
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Loni Specter
From:
West Hills, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2005 11:44 am
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Howard,
The above posts are right on the money if it's fresh nitro. It's still soft and pliable. Of course there's always the issue of the armadillo urine that's used to cure the laquer down in Texas.
That reminds me of that old Afghan coat I bought back in 1970. You know that Beatle kinda hippy looking fur out cuff look.
Guess what they cure the leather in out there?  |
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Jason Dumont
From:
Bristol, Connecticut, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2005 12:57 pm
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| Hi Howard, I'm certain you'll be fine. I just sent a steel to Plano, Texas 4 weeks ago. It was sprayed with nitro. The day it left it was a snow storm here and arrived in Texas the next day to a nice, sunny, 80 degree day to no ill effect. Actually I'm trying to figure out HOW to make it crack! anyone know? |
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Chuck Fisher
From:
Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Dec 2005 2:15 pm
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I got a guitar from Carrol during a cold spell, And Ive shipped recieved a few. Only time I ever screwed one up was a new Guild that was in an equipment trailer in South Dakota winter. I went and got it so I could play in the motel room, opened it up, fog, crinkle' crack. I heard it, yick!!!!
Moral: let it slowly get heated back up, dont open package right away, give it a couple of hours. |
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 17 Dec 2005 2:56 pm
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I'll agree with Ron and Chuck here, it's the sudden changes that most often cause problems. I have seen a brand new guitar do it though, a student at Roberto-Venn who took his guitar home for break had it craze in the hold of the airplane.
It will probably be alright but I'd suggest two options. One: Have Carroll put a live Armadillo in the case (body heat) or Two: Have him send it here to AZ instead and I'll pass it on once temps in that silly place you live become more tolerant. 
------------------
Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 17 Dec 2005 3:29 pm
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I had a buddy, years ago, who had a mandolin-like instrument from South America made out of the body & shell of a 'dillo. Head & all. Seems to me, if you can get ahold of one of those and send it to Howard, then you keep the Benoit in AZ, then everybody's got something. God, I love happy endings.
(I am almost sick to my stomach imagining the sound that Chuck heard as his guitar finish crazed before his eyes. Gaa!) |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2005 2:39 am
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Howard,
From a retired airline pilot:
Fear not; The air in cargo airplanes is systematically warmer than passenger airplanes as is most of the air shipment environment.
The heated local trucks are the critical point for temperature under normal circumstances ...in the rare event that a driver isn't concientious, or has a break-down where the cargo would remain in a cold environment, etc.
You can and should add the additional insurance of surrounding an instrument with insulation in it's case or inner carton if it's not in a case (newspaper wadded into moderatly tight "balls" is great), along with insulation in any voids between the case / inner carton and the outer carton. That way it will retain it's temperature longer should the carrier encounter some abnormal circumstance on it's journey. It's also wise to put the guitar in an air-tight plastic bag, as well as it's case or inner carton, ...as moisture barriers against pressure changes condensation influx. The suggestions in this discussion chain to allow a carton to slowly settle into a new temperature when it's received, are very good advice ....which the added insulation also helps. I "never" open an instrument until the day after it's received. If the outer carton is damaged, I circle the damage on the carton with a pen-marker (preferably in red, should subsequent photos of damage be needed) in the presence of the driver and tell him that it's a musical instrument and cannot be opened for inspection until the next day, for aclimation purposes.
Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 18 December 2005 at 08:03 AM.] |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 18 Dec 2005 8:48 am
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Thanks everyone. I appreciate all of your responses. Even Jon's... 
The guitar will arrive by 10am to my apt. building and be stored in the parcel room (room temperature). I get home from work around 6pm, although this Friday of the holiday weekend, I may be home by 4:30.
I'll let it sit in my apt for a few hours before I open the outside carton, or should I open the outside carton & let it sit? If the case is at room temp., I would assume it's ok to open?
I know that I'm being very particular & cautious. When I post photos, it will be understood why.
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2005 9:04 am
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Bring the shipping carton into your apartment THEN LEAVE.
Don't be tempted to open the box. RESIST THE URGE TO EVEN TAKE A LITTLE PEEK. This will be hard to do, but do it!
I don't want you to end up crying.
Go out to dinner, go get a drink, go to New Jersey, go anywhere.
Come back four hours later then open it. As your attorney I highly advise you to take this course of action.
That'll be $150 please.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 18 December 2005 at 09:06 AM.] |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 18 Dec 2005 9:11 am
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Since Howard asked the question about armadillos I figured I had to post this.
But most seriously, I share your concern and hope everything goes ok--I imagine this has been done millions of times with no problem. I can't wait to see pics. You sure know how to do the holidays. |
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Todd Clinesmith
From:
Lone Rock Free State Oregon
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Posted 18 Dec 2005 9:12 am
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Howard,
I, as a few mensioned,I would worry about the shock from cold to warm and visa versa. I would also, as you questioned, when you get home from work pull the case out of the shipping box ....and let that aclimate as well before opening.
I had a booth across from Carol Benoit at the IBMA show in Nashville this past October. I belive I saw your guitar there. He said it was built for a customer in New York..... I figured it was yours. I also figured this because " this was no bluegrassers geetar !"
With the right care given I am sure all will be well.
Enjoy
Todd |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 18 Dec 2005 12:35 pm
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Gerald, things never get THAT desperate
But, I will heed your advice and walk the streets for a few hours. Actually, I'll hit happy hour where I frequent.
Jon, I used to see some of those hanging out at the bar at Hanks. And those were the gals!
Todd, yeah, I don't think I'll be doing Foggy Mountain Breakdown on that one! Maybe A Foggy Night In London Town
I will follow all of the advise above. Thanks. |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Dec 2005 5:18 pm
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by the by the armadillo guitar is a charango..South American isnturment often found/made in Argentina (homeland of my parents and grandparents birth and of course home to the tango and one fot he few places on earth that every piece of the cow is utilized
Oh and it's found in Peru too... |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 19 Dec 2005 8:44 am
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I'm looking forward to great pictures!
If you can not resist the temptation, and must open it immediatly, please set up a video camera, with sound, to record the event.
A posted video of the of the experience that Chuck described would be most interesting, and a valuable lesson to others.
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Ron Brennan
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA; Formerly, Edison, NJ
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Posted 19 Dec 2005 1:16 pm
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Howard,
As an Airline guy, all the advise provided above are right on point. Especially, Denny Turner's point of view....
In general terms, the cabin enviroment (Temp & air pressure conditions) of the main deck spaces behind the cockpit's of most Air Freighters are typical of what passengers experience. In other words, the seats were taken out and the cabins are fitted for Cargo handling.
You should follow the precautions given in all the other post's above and very carefully.
Now, about coming over to New Jersey (a resort destination) for your mental stability. Be sure to bring a very long stretch of vine or cable with you. We still swing from tree's over here, ya know. I would also suggest, with your NYC train stike in the works over there, you come across the Hudson river in a canoe. Till then, stay dry...  TX
rgds,
Ron
------------------
JCFSGC member since 2005 "Be of Good Cheer"
"55" Stringmaster D8,"59" Stringmaster D6
"67" Telecaster,
"60"Fender Concert Amp 4-10's
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 19 Dec 2005 1:47 pm
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Ron, remind me to tell you my NJ joke the next time we meet....  |
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