Playing steel in a new country band? Thoughts?

Steve Howard · From: High Ridge, Missouri, USA

Thought it would be interesting to get some comments from others in my situation.

This topic is intended for those who ENJOY new country. To me that defines the new country traditionalists such as Brad Paisley and Joe Nichols to the more rock side with those like Montgomery Gentry and Keith Urban.

My question is that as less and less steel is being put into new country recordings and more and more electric guitar, how do you fill your night on steel and remain engaged? My band had more steel stuff in our set list early on but as we have continued to grow our set list, and really see what is engaging our normal party crowd, many of those songs have been phased out to make room for more rocked up stuff. I am playing guitar and banjo (ala keith urban) more and more and less meat on steel. The songs I am playing steel on usually have minimal parts. I enjoy playing guitar and the backup banjo playing is okay too, but we already have a phenominal lead player so chances to really engage myself with solos aren't happening.

I hope to continually get better at steel (been playing 1 1/2 years split duty) so my improvising skills will allow me to drift away from the recorded steel parts and still be tasteful and not overplay. I realize this is really the only way for me to stay engaged on steel as we continue to play less and less traditional country.

But with all that said, it is important to note that hear in STL, people go to live music venues to party. That means a younger crowd and therefore the demographic dictates the type of music. I'm sure I can hook up with a traditional classic country band and play smaller venues for less money (as there are some incredible players doing that) but I don't think I would be as happy without the crowd engagement we get right now.I choose to be in the situation I'm in and quiting to find a more steel friendly music line up isn't something I am really looking to do.

Just curious if any of you are feeling the same pain?

I just hope I'm not learning this incredibly difficult instrument just to see it completely phased out of country 10 years from now.

Remember, even a lot of the rock country being recorded right now still use the fiddle,banjo, and steel to try to give it a country flavor. I just hope that doesn't stop.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Apart from doubling on other stringed instruments,just play the steel as if it were a rock & roll instrument with no country licks and pedal mashin'. Or get a stand-up non-pedal steel,plug in,crank it up and confront the guitar player on his own terms. Nothing will make him put his slide back in his pocket quite as fast as that.

Rick Garrett · From: Tyler, Texas

That is exactly why (in my opinion) it's important for people (ie Robert Randolph) to take the steel guitar in different directions other than simply allowing the instrument to die with traditional country music. When's the last time you heard Hank or Jim Reeves on your regular radio station? They don't play ANY traditional country on those stations here. Just top 40 stuff. Personally I love old country but you really have to look for it on the radio anymore.

Fact is that country music IS changing and it's moving further and further away from it's roots all the time. I'm not saying it's wrong or right just that it's happening.

Rick

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Play the SONG
not the INSTRUMENT

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

There is a battle going on. Stand up for your rights in the band and insist on playing some steel friendly songs (if you want to play steel). Otherwise quit. You are a member of the band. You should have some say so on what songs are being played. Assert your self.

Steve Howard · From: High Ridge, Missouri, USA

well, i think there has been some really great steel playing on new country recordings that most here would say are rock songs.

For example, an album by a new artist on lyric street records, Trent Tomlinson, is a very rocked up country album. For me (i'm 27) this album still deserves be placed in the country section cause it feels country, but they are definately adding a lot more edge to the music that makes it appeal to broader audiences. Anyway, PF I believe did the steel playing and he is throwing country steel licks all over the place. (To clarify, not old school country licks, but more like Brooks & Dunn 90's country steel licks). It just sounds phenominal to have such a driving record with great steel guitar fills everywhere.

I could take a lot of our songs like "Drinkin my Baby Goodbye" or "Aint Goin Down" and probably do that type of thing... 5 years from now after practicing daily. I think that putting country steel licks in rocked up melodies is harder than doing it for traditional melodies, but when it is done right, it sounds so sweet... to my ears, this is the type of recordings I love.

Why do I love it so much, probably cause I grew up with Van Halen and Aerosmith. Found country a few years ago as the place that all the great musicians are still left. I really appreciate and can enjoy old school country (Haggard, Hank, Ray Price) but if it still sounded like that today, I would have never crossed over in the first place.

Kenny Drake · From: Leesburg, Virginia, USA

Steve, I think Larry Bell nailed it for you. Don't limit yourself on pedal steel. It can work nicely anywhere. You could also lose the banj* for awhile. (It couldn't hurt)

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Steve, the band I am now parting from regular playing with isn't really new country, but more Americana and country-rock. Yet, I face the same issue exactly.

When we started, the music had more space in general, and specifically for steel. Gradually, as they face making industry connections and prepare to hit the road, they have changed the focus somewhat, and I don't think the steel fits very well. The music has gotten harder and more lead-guitar driven. It's still very good music, to my tastes, but not really what I want to do.

In fact, the other night, I just turned my Leslie simulator on slow swirl pretty much continuously, stepping up the rotor speed for solos - it fit what they were doing perfectly. I'm moving on to do what I want in another project, and they're going to hire a B-3 player. It's all amicable - I will probably record with them some and play with them occasionally when the situation is appropriate, but mimicing a B-3 is just not what I want to do on steel right now. Don't get me wrong, I grew up listening to Rusty Young in Poco, but I'm going a different direction right now.

Part of this is that I don't want to go on the road either, but even if I did - right now, at least - I really want my steel guitar to sound like a traditional steel guitar. I have played guitar for decades - most styles except classical - when I want to sound like a guitar player, I play guitar. Also, don't let the b@njo naysayers here influence you too much. It's good to be versatile, IMO.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

If you listen carefully, you'll find that many of the "lead guitar" parts on new country records are in fact a steel guitar. Get the right tone from your amp and think like a slide guitarist with multiple tunings that you can change at will.

Pete Finney · From: Nashville Tn.

That's an interesting angle, bOb... I'm sure you're right but just haven't been keeping up on a lot of recent stuff... Got some good examples we can check out?

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

I'm with b0b and Larry.. play the tune, experiment and be creative.

Ron Sodos · From: San Antonio, Texas USA

You guys who think the new stuff is cool ought to go to some of the steel guitar conventions and watch what the great players do with their steel guitars. Guys like Terry Bethel, Herby Wallace, Mike Smith, of course Buddy Emmons, Paul Frankin and all the rest. If you think traditional steel guitar will pass you are wrong. What will pass is all the garbage being played on the radio these days just like the garbage rock of the 70's and 80's that todays new country emulates. I listen to new country and it sounds exactly like the stuff i turned off then which eventually passed into history. Wait and see how todays new stuff dissolves down the toilet just as well. Don't get me wrong I do like Joe Nichols alot and some of the others that you guys call new country. But it is rare and hard to find. This post was not meant to start another feud just an observation from a guy that has been playing professional music for 30+ years. I played it all from rock to funk and jazz and blues and on to country.......

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

I'M not even a pro,but JEFF NEWMAN was teaching in 1984 playing the lead guitar stuff so nice. He was teaching L patterns P patterns and a STEP LADDER pattern on E9th.
C6th sounds on E9th. He could play with any of it.

also watching Hal Rugg on Wilburn Bros shows,and the C6th stuff will fit on any of the stuff now days.

I'm working hard to Jive it up on C6th to hang in there.

Its there,but the days of the sweet flowing Hank Williams is getting less.

Next time the LEAD GUITAR gives you a break be ready and blow his doors off. hehhehehe'

farris

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Get a Marshall stack.
Learn some Hendrix licks.

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

No feud here Ron, but I never said the traditional styles will pass or that I think the new "county" music is cool. On the contrary, I play as traditional as I can, whenever I can, but I don't back away from other styles.
I got my first guitar at 4 or 5 years old and started playing for money at 13, I started on steel around 1974-75 in an original country rock band after six months of woodshedding. Still, I am far fron being a great steel player, I learn new stuff every day.
As a player, I always felt that you are what you eat. By that I mean if you allow yourself to be influenced by everything you ever listened to, you will be a more well rounded musician, not just a steel guitar player. You will develop a better ear, be able to play any song, any style. To learn more new traditional style stuff I listen to the new traditional players that record and play along with them. But I am also influenced by the music from Bach to Frank Zappa to Steely Dan to Jobim, from the Beatles to Hank Sr. and and every thing in between. It lets me be more creative.
When I play at the local blues jam, most of the guitar players are scared to bring out the slide and if they do, they better bring their A game, because I am bringing mine.
Bottom line is if you can play ...you can play anything.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

An interesting observation, Ron
I've attended more than a dozen of Scotty's conventions and played at dozens of steel shows alongside Emmons, Hughey, Wallace, Rugg, Myrick, ad nauseum. If you are preaching to me to listen to traditional steel guitar music, you're preaching to the choir.

What I'm talking about is MAKING MONEY playing in a band that people pay money to see. You do what is necessary to get by. I think if you listen to what Mike Smith plays today you will hear very little of that traditional A and B pedal stuff, as well -- even though he is a master at playing the older styles. There are MANY STYLES OF MUSIC. A lot of people want to hear what they hear on the radio. It's not necessarily my choice but then I don't really ever listen to it except when I'm called on to play it.

If you want to hang out in the VFW's until the last traditional country fan dies out, that's your prerogative. Personally, I prefer to be equipped to play whatever style I'm called on to play. Nobody loves a shuffle more than me, but I'll 'lower' myself to play a rock tune (even one they play on the country radio) if that's what folks who are paying me want to hear.

Look around at some of the steel events. The average age is NOT getting younger. It's getting OLDER.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Nobody but steel players wants to hear a steel sound like a guitar, or B3, or Ban*o. If I want a b3, I'll hire one. An earlier post said that traditional country will not die, well I think it already has!
Most of us on here are a bunch of old farts wishing for the past. If you like old country, play it.
I like Poco, eagles, NRPS, etc. No one around St. Louis is doing that stuff, as far as I know. That is my next project, and it will do well. I do not like steel that trys to be everything,it's just like a keyboard playing steel licks--yecch! JP

[This message was edited by Jim Peters on 09 June 2006 at 07:36 PM.]

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

ok, i have been asked several times about the patterns. I have the paper work somewhere, is there someone that can explain the patterns on E9th that can make it to where anyone can understand it????
It was done with the Bpedal slide down 2frets from home base.

someone who knows it, please explain,while i hunt the papers
farris

Don Barnhardt · From: North Carolina, USA

Music is always changing. Musicians are paid to entertain the customers that buy the ticket or drinks or whatever. If you want paying gigs you have to play what the customer wants. When pedal steels revolutionized country music back in the 1950's a lot of great lap steelers dropped out rather than change; Jerry Byrd was one of them. The point is that steel guitar is a pretty versatile instrument and if you're flexible you should be able to style as the occasion demands. It's interesting to note that dobro is coming on strong on lots of new country. Dobro players were making these same laments back in the 1930's.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Every band I was/am in, somebody was in charge. If not, it's total chaos and never gets anywhere.

So my question is - what does the leader want you to do, or are YOU the leader?

When I was a hired hand, I played what the leader wanted, or if I didn't feel I could add to the music in an honest, soulful manner, I declined to play. If I was the leader, it was my call.

Sure, you have some decisions even as a sideman - but it needs to be within what the leader wants to hear. Make sure that's being communicated clearly, Then you can make an informed decision on what you want to do.

But "play more slide-type stuff" or "stand up for your rights" have no basis in fact - example 1 may not b what the boss wants to hear, and in example 2 - if you're not signing the checks, you have no rights. A band isn't a democracy - it should be a benign dictatorship. someone HAS to call the shots, including stylistic ones. If all the players are making their own decisions, you're in jam-band land.

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

I like playing rock on the steel.Just take a light cheap amp and don't have to bother with tuning up.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Most rock is in tune.

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

guys,there has never been a better time to make money playing steel guitar.You don`t have to play like Buddy or Hal or Lloyd you just need to learn those 2-3 slides in the song and you are out there making money sitting behind your steel,drinking beer,smoking and checking out chicks.Can you immagine being on the road 20 years ago with having to learn all those complicate licks and tricks,hell..this is the best time ever to get into a steel guitar playing business...look at recordings...same thing
I heard a great thing today from the one of the best players in industry "less you play,more they`ll love you"..ha..it`s our time guys,to get into the music business and make some money not having to do much at all just weeee weeee couple times in the song and that`s it..hell,40% of the songs (new country) you don`t even have to do nothing..go get a beer and relax..let guitar player and drummer work a little..it`s their time now to work..ha ha ha..what a joke..."new country music"

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

We run our band as a democracy. Three time Buffalo Music Award Winners. Opened for 37 Nashville acts in the last two years. It would be a cold day in hell before some some band leader told me what or what I couldn't play, within reason. You should have a say so in your band. Your opinion counts. Jim Sliff, who do you play for and what are your credentials to make such statements???

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Well this is pretty wide open now..

Overall I think what Larry and Jim are saying is correct, and I also agree with many comments.

And Damir is right on the button too.

Kevin ole' buddy, I hear where you are coming from but I recall a few months back you made some statement about your Bandleader wants you to play it exactly like the record, no wiggle room, thats not a Democracy.

Our band, and I am not the leader, although TJ calls me the silent leader behind the scenes,on any given night we may cover classic old material to Save a Horse, and it really depends on where we are playing.

It's not about us as players, or me on Steel, ( even though it should be

) it's about the venue, the folks dancing, the folks who paid 10 or 12 bucks to get in the door and want to dance all night.

IF the band is rockin out on some tune that I don't particularly care for I lay back.If the tune calls for a "SLIDE" style, then guess what,thats what I play. Step on the Blues Driver and join the party.

thru all this I know one thing for certain.

Soon we are gonna play Kindly Keep it Country or perhaps Together Again or Love Bug. Certainly we cover several Brad P tunes and D Bentley Tunes too.And then of course, if my Picks don't fall off, we will play HWY 40 Blues or a full out jam on Workin' Man Blues...at meter...

IF we understand what the heck we are doing in the band to begin with, playing any song should never be an issue.Each band member does not have to LOVE every song but they should have a desire to PLAY every song.

Now I don't play in an award winning band, I have NOT backed over 30 top acts, but I have been playing on the bandstand for over 40 years , played venues from 10 people to 10,000 people , booked my own band for about 5 years straight 3 / 4 nights /week, and although I would never rate my playing as anything more than what it is, I am here ta tell ya that if you are on the bandstand and you are NOT the leader, your job is to play the SONG that is called or that is on the set list to the best of your ability. Thats not a Democracy, it's a requirement as a musician on the Bandstand.

The New so-called Country tunes are the TUNES that are currently popular, some are pretty good, some NOT so good in my view. But thats got nothing to do with it. These are the tunes that folks want to hear and what keeps many of us still playing beyond the bedroom door.

Folks are not coming out to hear me play Danny Boy (thank god) they are coming out to hear Save a Horse and whatever else you can throw at them to keep them coming out and paying to get in.

The proof statement for us is when we first started to cover Save a Horse, and by the way we do have fun with it, the entire room, over 400 strong, came out onto the dance floor and partied hearty...

A smart bandleader will mix it up appropriatley. Nobody is ever telling us NOT to play classic Country, they are requesting that we play NEW tunes as well.

The trick is to play tunes to keep your band employeed and to NOT loose your Bands identity in the process.

Choose smart songs,choose songs with melodic flavor, nobody says we have to play them all but they want us to play some of them, and we do.

Anybody can play Release Me or Way to Survive all night..in there Bedroom...

but eventually, even our Pets move on from that show

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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 11 June 2006 at 03:13 AM.]

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