Basal Joint Arthritis in the thumb...

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Has anyone had to deal with this or know someone that has? I believe I've got it. Pain at the base of your thumb joint is the indicator, along with having a weak grip due to the pain. With me (and I'm 46), it began a couple of years ago as an annoying sensation in my thumb joints. X-rays at that time, according to my doctor, showed arthritis, but she didn't prepare for me what it's led to. Almost overnight it's become where I can hardly grip anything. It's in both hands, but my right hand is the one suffering now. My left hardly has any symptoms now (and I'm left-handed). It's not really hampered playing steel, because picking is not gripping, per se, but what I'm TERRIFIED of, is that surgery seems to be the main method to rectify this problem, and 20% who have surgery end up with secondary problems, like numbness on top of the hand or a weaker grip (but without the pain). After surgery, it would be a couple of months, probably, before I could even think of playing any instrument, which bums me out, but the alternative of my thumb eventually drawing into my palm without me being able to bring it out is unthinkable, considering I've got an option to "fix" the problem.

So...any encouragement from personal experience or from those you know who have it would be appreciated.

Al

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

I have a lot of pain in my thumbs, but never had a real diagnosis. I've had two cortisone shots but they didn't really help. I don't really have any help for you, but when I played six string guitar the pain was mostly in the left hand, now I play mostly steel and the pain is more in the right. If there is a help for the problem I would very much like to know.

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Howard

Jon Jaffe · From: Austin, Texas

Read all of this and any related links you can find, then ask questions of hand surgeons not friends: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=16277146

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Gee, Jon -- thanks for asking me not to post this here. Sorry, but if you have had a friend go through knee surgery, I can't imagine you wouldn't ask him what it was like and what to expect. That's all I'm asking here. I'm not asking for professional advice. Take your attitude elsewhere.

Al

W. J. Copeland · From: Palestine, Texas, USA

Everyone is usually full of it, advice that is, but take it from someone in the medical field and also is battling OL'e Uncle Arthur. Before having surgery I will try anything, especially when it comes to the hands. #1. Go to one of the golf shops and get you a good copper braclet. They ususally run about $50 bucks. #2. Buy over-the-counter Glucosamine Chondroitin and take it twice daily with meals. Preferably 750mg/600mg respectively. #3. If your system can tolerate Ibuprofen, take 600 to 800mg twice a day. If you do not see improvement with pain and joint swelling within 3-4 weeks, a stronger perscription drug may be needed as perscribed by your Physician. Good luck. It is worth a try. And, the advice is free.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I would recommend trying some of joint, over the counter, medicines. I have taken a combination of glucosamine and chondroitin for years now. My shoulders used to ache soooo bad that I couldn't lay on them at night. That pain is gone. I am now taking the joint capsules from HiHealth that also contain Collagen. I much prefer this over surgery.
Erv

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

,,,,sorry,,,double posted

[This message was edited by Sonny Jenkins on 16 February 2006 at 08:20 AM.]

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

I may be wrong,,but it seems like I remember BE having thumb joint problems some time back???? If so it sure wasn't noticeable in his pickin'!!

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

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[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 16 February 2006 at 02:13 PM.]

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

Al,I met Dr.Jon Jaffe some time back so I'm certain his advice comes from years of knowledge both as a Doctor and Professor in emeregency room surgery and not some unknown hack steel player.

My own experience in asking questions on the forum in reference to foot pain resulted in a world of friendly advice. The problem was found to be in the kind of blood pressure medicine I was taking and once stopped, the on-going problem disappeared completely.

Next time you need to know how to play Hammer on's with the authority of Buddy Emmons ask him, not a Doctor.

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

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[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 16 February 2006 at 02:14 PM.]

Ted Solesky · From: Mineral Wells, Texas, USA

Al, my friend Skip Mertz was handling some herbs that seems to help eliminate that problem. But Dick Wood's advice about blood pressure pills may be the answer too.? That stuff does have side effects.

Jon Jaffe · From: Austin, Texas

Thanks Dick but I did not make recommendations. The link I listed was a literature search on the type of surgery listed. Testimonials rarely lead to any useful information. I apologize if I offended you, but I tried to direct you to the best available evidence on the subject. I ask my friends for comfort, or a good golf game, not for scientific evidence. I have no personal idea what would be the best solution to your problem, but I did spend the time to research the literature. It is there with a click of your mouse.

Jon

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Jon, we'll just have to disagree with each other. I'm a firm believer in testimonials leading to useful information (way more than rarely). This forum, itself, is built on testimonials...am I wrong? Is this forum not built on testimonials?

Thanks for the link, but I spent two hours on the internet looking up such links and reading countless articles before I came onto the forum to...ask anyone if they had had this surgery or had similar symptoms or knew someone that had. I didn't solicit for "scientific evidence." And I hate even responding to you like this, but I despise arrogant doctors who think "friends" can't offer advice on surgeries they, themselves, have experienced. Good Lord.

For those who've been nice enough to respond to my post, I sincerely appreciate it, and I am a bit embarrassed by having to debate a secondary issue above, but I'm quite offended, and anyone who thinks their testimonials are not useless should also be offended.

Al

[This message was edited by Al Terhune on 16 February 2006 at 07:37 PM.]

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Double post. See Below.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 16 February 2006 at 08:03 PM.]

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I hesitate to add this except that it has worked PERFECTLY for me in an otherwise arthritic joint in my right wrist.

In 79 I badly broke my right arm and broke the floor of one of the wrist joints. It hurt a lot, never got much better and I was getting pain with every weather change or session of hard use that felt like a screwdriver prying the bones apart. I couldn't hold a pliers or hammer, let alone play steel.

It continued until I learned of THIS

I tried it, exactly on the joint, and about the next couple days, the pain went away.

Since that time, I have been playing steaduly and have a job that uses my wrist strenuously a LOT.

Every time it would flare up, about a year or so at first I would use it, and the last time was probably 6 years ago.

I am growing more allergic to the acids and/or proteins involved, so I swelled up pretty good the last time, but I haven't had ANY pain or notice of it at all in the last 6 years. I will do it again if I do.

Do some research on it and you'll find that it's not some crackpot "Magnet Cure" or "Colloidal Mineral Crappola". At worst, "they" can't explain why it works.

By all means, do the research.

Also the advice for Condroitin/Collagen is right on the money. The best easy cheap source? "Knox Gelatin". Tons of it stuffed in capsules to hide that awful taste and continued for at least a month. I brought back a nearly hyper extended knee and cartilidge damage with it. Never came back after it healed. Do at LEAST a month of it daily though, and preferably two ir three. Jello daily is better for you than more people know for that very reason.

I wish you well.

EJL

Jon Jaffe · From: Austin, Texas

Let me give this one more shot and then pass. Carpal tunnel syndrome is common amongst people who use their hands for a living. The most common therapy recommended was NSAIDS in high concentrated doses (ibuprofen etc) and rest. However, when this therapy was studied in a controlled fashion it did not work in spite of presumed and testimonial evidence. What worked was injected or oral prednisone and splinting. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=15209206

I do not argue that there is always room for experience, however, when something has been studied carefully and controlled, it is usually the best path.

Peace,

Jon

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Ibuprofen is very habit forming. That's for sure.

EJL

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine will be considerably less invasive and will work at the arthritis root causes more than surgery or destructive (Gluco/chondro is ok though) or destructive drugs (I've been on them). Go there first before turning to hard meds if you can. Take it from someone with full systemic arthritis. the pills don't help enough. They really only mask and supress.

Darrell Owens · From: California, USA

I have the problem in my left hand from playing guitar for many years. It was caused from playing Chords that required an extreme stretch of the hand. My doctor gave me a choice of managing the pain with medication or having surgery to correct the problem. So far, I have decided not to have the surgery, even though the risk is small, it is still a risk I am not yet willing to accept. I take the previously mentioned drugs and try to avoid doing things that hurt.

Don Barnhardt · From: North Carolina, USA

Al...I've got it too. It came on suddenly with a sharp stabbing pain about 10 years ago. After a month or so I went to see an orthopedic surgeon. He x-rayed my hand and found arthritis in the joint. He also did some kind of electrical test on my wrists and said I had carpal tunnel syndrome in both wrists. I've been a painter for a number of years so that diagnosis seemed reasonable. To make a short story long I had carpal tunnel surgery on both wrists and I still have the thumb problem. My family doc is an osteopath and he tells me theres not much that can be done for that particular problem even steroid injections are not effective. The NSAID route is probably as good a thing as you can do. If it's unbearable and you seek the medical route get more than one opinion.

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

That's interesting Eric. I had seen a docmentary on the subject some time ago, but forgot about it. I was glad to see this thread come up since I have the same problem, but after the usual rudeness appeared, I regret becoming involved. Dr Jaffe, I appreciate your attempts to help.

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Howard

Wade Branch · From: Weatherford, Texas, USA

Al,I dont normally get involved in debates.I usually stear clear of this kind of stuff.The problem about debating behind a keyboard is you cant cant tell what kind of emotion they are feeling while they are typing.
Jon Jaffe is a personal close friend of mine.This man is one of the kindest ,most giving person's Ive ever known,to call him a "arrogant doctor" highly offends me.He went out of his way to do some research on the internet to find you a possible solution to your problem,but all you read was that you should not listen to your friends unprofessional advice,thats what your mad about ? Jon is a highly trained professional who has been in this field longer than Ive been on the earth.Jon does not brag or boast about anything,in fact I bet until know hardly anybody here even knew he was a doctor.To sterotype him as arrogant just because he's a doctor is as wrong as it gets
!!!!
I can tell you testimonials are really just one persons personal experience with a unique situation that could vary one way or another from your experience.While its nice to discuss your situation with someone who has been thru a similar situation as yours,its not to say you could'nt be mislead.I still believe in the motto "leave it to the professional".
Iam a licensed electrician and I cant tell you how many times ive been in a home building supply store buying some materal for a project and I will see a customer asking one of the employee's that works there how to wire up a service on a house or how to wire up an air compressor or cook stove,etc.Now for all we know this employee thats offering advice could of been transfered there last week from the wall paper section.Now he's probably heard a ton of testamonials and storys about wiring methods and different things they have tried and how it worked great.But as we speak ,right now somewhere there's a house burning to the ground because someone gave them a great testamonial like "Let me tell you a quick,easy and inexpensive way to hook up that electric dryer,with out paying a electrician,hell you want even have to pull a electric permit,they will never know"

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

I feel sure that the credentials of Dr. Jaffe are above reproach. There are many avenues to consider when dealing with the arthritis problem than so many of us have.

However, I am offended by one of the comments above that dismissed everyone else's experience and comments as being from "some unknown hack steel player".

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Wade,

I appreciate your defense of Jon. I'm an admirer of loyalty. As nice and giving as Jon is, he's still missing the point -- as you are -- that I'm not asking anyone how to perform the surgery (like you say layman ask how to perform electrical work) or what my best approach is. That clearly is up to a professional. How many times do I have to make clear that I'm simply soliciting from my fellow forumites whom have had the surgery or similar symptoms to relay to me what they've personally gone through? I'm beside myself at how this has progressed.

Howard: You simply can't have it both ways. You're glad this thread came up because you have the same problem, yet you support the good doctor whose original advice to me was to not solicit on the forum from friends. He said "ask questions of hand surgeons not friends." I still find that arrogant, and obviously, so do you, if you're glad this topic popped up -- unless you're completely dismissing everyone's imput except Jon's.

Thanks so much, everybody, for your friendly advice and personal experiences. It's a daunting point in one's life when your grippers go haywire. I'm going to look into everything you've offered. Eric -- that was a very, very interesting site you directed me to.

Al

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