Young Steelers

Jeremy McCoy · From: Washington, USA

Are there any active members on the forum that are under the age of, oh, lets say 30? I just recently purchased a PSG, and am looking forward to learning the classic forms/technique. However, i'm also interested in using the PSG in music forms that are outside the classic country "box". That is why i'm hoping to tap into some of the other younger users who may already be creating these types of music (I would hope that no one take this as a shot at the older musicians).

Jeremy

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

A shot at older musicians? Not at all. But a totally, thoroughly flawed premise that age defines artistic style. Very narrow thinking.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Good idea; I hope you get a lot of responses. New influences always needed.
No shot taken. (I'm over 30, so I can't help you. In my generation, it was 'Don't trust anyone over thirty.' Glad to see some of that spirit is still alive.)

Jeremy McCoy · From: Washington, USA

I would totally agree that age does not influence creativity. I just know that I don't listen to a lot of the same artists that many of the members of this forum regularly listen to. I'm hoping that some of the younger players on the forum might be influenced by the same types of music that I currently enjoy, and are incorporating the PSG into those styles of music. Hopefully no offense was taken by my previous post.

Jeremy

Bill Mayville · From: Las Vegas Nevada * R.I.P.

Hi their. Trick is.You may take twenty years to learn, or a few. You have to know the neck.You have to block.Yes .A little theory will take you miles ahead faster than the [players still trying to invent a new tuning or what ever.)I do not teach anything about the circle of fifths until around the 6th lesson.The use of the 6th notes and the 7th notes are easier, but come after the circle.
Once there, it starts you thinking. Some drop out. The others Can get with a band real easy.Practice when your in the mood to make music.You can take as much time as you need.But, you don't need a life time to learn this instrument. Bill Mayville

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Now that I'm feeling less grouchy---but no less adamant on the point that age is totally irrelevant--you don't say what music you are interested in. Son Volt? Jessica Simpson? Franz Ferdinand? Rudy Vallee?

Jeremy McCoy · From: Washington, USA

After only a short while with a PSG, I fully realize that it's going to take some serious time to have a working knowledge, even longer to master the instrument. I also realize that the longer you spend learning technique before actually trying to adapt your instrument to a new style of music, the more challenging it is because you find yourself thinking within the rules you've been taught (err, more concenrned about sounding terrible!).

The kind of artists that I listen to that utilize the PSG are Calexico, Holopaw, Richard Buckner, etc. Even though they are not artists that use the PSG heavily, where it is used it's utilized very well. Alot of that type of music gets classified as alt-country, though I hate that term. Most music that gets considered alt-country is either 90% alt, 10% country or just singer/songwriter stuff (which has apparently become a dead term). True, in my eyes, alt-country is more balanced, and is a heck of a lot more "country" than the country flavored top-40 they play on the radio. But the style of music I'd like to work PSG into is more along the lines of Radiohead and Grandaddy. Think modern version of Pink Floyd, if you've never heard their music.

At any rate, I still haven't heard from anyone in the same boat I am. It's getting lonely over here

Jeremy

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Hi Jeremy,
You are definitely in the right place. I hate to burst your bubble, but much of the non-progressive, ultra-commercial, yucky music being made today is being made by people under 30. I'm not saying that this is exactly what you're saying, but the generation gap issue is interesting. I'm over 30 (not my choice--unlike a musical choice, there's not much I can do about it), but I work with younger people. I am a college instructor, and it seems that A LOT of young people are becoming more conservative, more conformist, less critically thinking and open minded as the years go by. Perhaps as I get older the generation gap grows for me, but I'm getting to the point where I would say, "Don't trust anyone under 30". I really don't think there is as much of a correlation between age and musical taste, politics, and lifestyle as some people assume there is. As far as musical interests and practices go, I think there is as more diversity here than on a lot of forums, plus there is a lot of real solid knowledge. and thoughtful and respectful communication here, and it's all focused on the wonderful steel guitar.

Lately there have been a few threads from people who overtly identify themselves as out-of-the-box non-country players. What I have noticed is that some of these members feel the need to stress that they are different from most of the other members, and they either explain or imply that the bulk of the forum members are stuck-in-the-box country-only players. Personally, I see these identity declarations of self and others as an act of projection in an attempt for some members to see themselves. I think that this leads people down the road of over-generalization and division. Interestingly, I've never seen these types of ideas posted by people who feel that there are members who are trying to break traditions, or threaten any sort of steel guitars paradigms. My advice is to not worry about these things, and I think that if you openly absorb all of the information that this forum has to offer you will find that there really is a great diversity of interests and experience here, much of coming from members well over 30 who have the benefit of living long enough to have gone down many musical paths and to have developed great expertise and experience. I am grateful that they are kind and generous people. I say this as encouragement, not correction.

Twang on,
Cliff

Bill McCloskey · Posted 20 Nov 2005 1:50 pm

Jeremy,

I can't help on the age thing (51) and I've never heard of most of the bands you mentioned but I went to the Calexico site and listened to the track they had posted and loved it. I really hope you hang around and clue us all in on new bands using Pedal Steel. I for one would love the education.

Thanks.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Hey Jeremy--I'll stand to be corrected by my local compadres here but I'd just make up a figure of 50% as to the amount of the picking in the NYC area that falls into your category. And I don't worry about what to call it--singer/songwriter, alt., whatever--the terminology usually gets the point across.
I can't tell you much about how to approach steel playing in this context. I frankly never found it to be radically different from anything else--it's playing what is appropriate to the music as informed by your ears, experience, chops. Consequently I would say that the approach to learning to play steel with music of this sort is no different from if you were were dedicated to country music--solid foundtion, working towards the goal of being able to convert an idea in the head into a sound via fingers, feet, ears....
I was struck, when listening/watching Paul Franklin with Dire Straits--I didn't find anything all that different about his playing from his country music master sessions----he doesn't play licks. He plays music. It's the licks thing that gets you in trouble re: stereotypical sounding stuff that may be inappropriate to the music at hand.
I really enjoy the challenge of picking with a singer/songwriter. I think I have surprised more than one by bringing more than just twang or whine to the table.
Hopefully someone can provide some listening suggestions to illustrate these points. I'm drawing a blank.
BTW--I'm 52. I enjoy the fact that a lot of people I play with are half my age. But it doesn't mean a lot. Unless I can get them to carry my gear.

Joy Wofford · From: Battle Creek, Michigan, USA

Hi Jeremy. Naw, I'm not under 30 either...heck when I walk thru a room, I leave a dust trail. But I do understand what you're asking about (I think). When I first joined the ranks here, even though I had "lurked" for quite a while beforehand, I pretty much assumed that everyone here was into strickly country. Meaning what most folks think of as classic country...you know, that certain sound that makes it classic.

It didn't take me long to figure out that I was dead wrong. There are so many diverse musicians, and non-musicians but lovers of this instrument and sound, that I'm still trying to get time to listen to everyones CD samples and such on their various websites.

Just for starters, take a good listen to the man that runs the show here...b0b. You won't find just the typical classic country sound in his music! Then give something by Rick Alexander your ear...whoa. Even self-proclaimed newbies like Charlie McDonald, who posted to your thread, offers something entirely outta the realm of the classic, sterotypical country sound. And let's not forget some of the stuff by Basil Henriques. Some of his tunes will just knock your socks off!

I hope I haven't offended any of the aforementioned people by mentioning their names. I have nothing but the deepest respect and awe for the music they play. Thank goodness for them, and others like them that aren't afraid to take their music to the next level...to make you want the tune they're playing to never end, CAUSE IT'S THAT GREAT!! I'm endlessly surprised by the vast diversity in tastes of music on this forum. Here, here, applause all the way around.

And cheers for you Jeremy, for wanting to push the envelope and see what other kinds of music can be made on a steel. I'm not in the least bit offended that you're searching for someone of your own generation to make music with. But don't count some of us "more experienced" people out.

If new people like you didn't keep finding new and different voices on the steel, I think our beloved instrument would be the one to suffer. I can't wait to hear a sound clip when you start making your own, very personal sound on your steel. Please allow us to share your efforts!

Best of luck to you, make it sing YOUR way.

Joy

Nathan Delacretaz · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Jeremy,

Welcome from another relatively recent steel convert - I picked up steel at age 30 and will be turning 34 later this month.

I have zero experience with the country classics, save for some Patsy Cline and Hank Williams I learned expressly for gigs at the local pro theatre. This lack of experience was a source of anxiety for a year or so... Don't get hung up on the issue of style, if you can help it -- unless you're trying to hustle gigs in a country band, of course....

Remember that we all have the same 12 notes at our disposal -- I happen to think steel offers the best and most interesting sonic combinations of those 12 notes... What about you?

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Yeah; whatever..ha.
Ricky

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 22 November 2005 at 11:34 PM.]

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

A very interesting topic.

The average age here is 52, according to an on going thread in Feedback.

It appears to me, that most, if not all of the outside of the box music is coming from the "older" players. If you look at the cds available from the forum catalog, I think you'll find this to be true. Maybe the better term would be seasoned or experienced.

I think young steelers starting out are mostly interested in country & country style just as many young guitarists start out in rock (or whatever it gets labled today) and then after a certain amount of time, have the desire to play more intricate music.

Aside from the Sacred Steelers, who are the under 30 players, who's pushing the boundries?

As a side note, it appears that there are a lot of young Sacred Steel players. That genre of steel playing seems to be popular and growing with the 20s age bracket.

Jeremy, you may have to clear this path on your own. That's ok, it's a good thing.

Ben Slaughter · From: Madera, California

Well, you're not alone, I'm still a few years shy of 30. I do lean pretty heavily to the country side of things.

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Jeremy:If you live close to Seattle you should try to find Dan Tyack,Dan is just great although closer to 50 years old than 30 he always seems to be on the cutting edge of all types of music,and can play anything on steel that you can imagine,and he is open minded.It would be the best thing that you could do to get in touch with Dan.

Michael Garnett · From: Seattle, WA

Looks like me and Ben Slaughter are the only ones to have replied that belong to the under 30 group ... Jeremy - How old are you?

I'm with Ben, I lean more to the country classics. But, I live in Texas, and there's plenty of call for that. I've played gigs and on sessions where the end result sounded somewhere in the neighborhood of Smashing Pumpkins. It was pretty fun stuff, because it forced me to get out of my self-imposed boundaries.

-MG

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

I was 30 once, and lived through it. Looking back, I don't know how, or remember much.
I will have 3 years of steel learning under my belt, come this December 15. I play Country music now. I didn't know I was under some sort of boundry. For me, Country music is a super place to start my long journey as a steeler.
When I get comfortable playing country, I will look more toward swing and jazz. So if there is some sort of boundry, they better raise the fence high, 'cause when I get my instrument learned, I'm GONE! I'll play whatever I take a notion to do. Music is music, and a fantastic journey. Steel guitar is just the vehicle I chose to take that musical ride. I'll send you a postcard.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Ricky, Congrats on such a cool project!!

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Jon, "Son Volt? Jessica Simpson? Franz Ferdinand? Rudy Vallee?"
Are you trying to been middle of the road here LOL

Lets not forget Cecil Taylor, Sun Ra, Myron Florin, Django,
Link Wray, Son House, I Murvrini, Taraf des Haduiks,
Khaled, and maybe Fat's Waller too.

Jeremy, you would be surprised how those older than 30 types,
need more notes in interesting intervals,
than many young lions do.

In the jazz world you hardly get ANY respect in your twenties at all,
a wee bit more in your 3o's, with 2-4 albums under your belt.

Usually the younger players are still reguritating
variations on their idols / influences,
and have not yet codified a great
sound of their own.

Some of the great steel players really didn't stretch out
until they hit 35 or 40, then whoa watch out

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 21 November 2005 at 01:20 AM.]

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Thanks for the kind words, Stu!

I could say that the vast majority of 'out of the box' steel players that I know are over 30, but then it's also true that the vast majority of steel players that I know are over 30.

The Sacred Steel players do play outside of the
'country-western swing' box, but I don't any of them who do music in the Radiohead/Grandaddy vein.

I've done a fair amount of studio work in this style. Some other players who I'm sure have recorded in this style include Doug Livingstone in LA and Bob Hoffnar in New York.

Most of the playing I do is out of the box, let me know if you get to Seattle, and I'll put you on my lightly used mailing list.

Here's a couple of cuts from a CD by the locally based artist Carla Torgeson (a european release on Glitterhouse). They're vaguely Radiohead-like.
Radio head like? maybe
Another one

Here's something that isn't remotely Radiohead like but it is completely out of the box. It's from Earth's latest album (that's the band of Dylan Carlson, Curt Cobain's buddy). This sounds like what would happen if Black Sabbath were asked to score an Italian western, then the result were put to half speed). The steel comes in somewhere around half way through the song.
[url=http://www.southernlord.com/newmp3s/1%20Raiford%20(The%20Felon%20Wind).mp3]Box? I don't need no stinkin' box![/url]

------------------
www.tyack.com

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I just remembered this cut. It's kind of 'Pink Floydish'. This is from a live concert at the Paradiso in Amsterdam with the Dutch slide player Rene van Barneveld, the Dutch steel player Johan Jansen, Sonny Landreth, and yours truly, backup up by the Derek Trucks band. Rene wrote it. The Dutch players are panned left, the Americans are panned right.

This is kinda floydish, isn't it?

------------------
www.tyack.com

Tim Bridges · From: Hoover, Alabama, USA

Well, I'm below the average age (49 vs. 52). HOWEVER, I play in one group that does Ryan Adams, Gram Parsons, Robert Earl Keane, Son Volt, Robert Buckner, Joe Ely, etc. Heck, we even do some "classic" stuff. It's all the same stuff. You'll find that the more you learn, it all applies. If you want to play and sound like somebody else, well that's different.

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Calexico is a fun band.

I've met both Jon Rauhouse and Paul Niehaus who have played steel with them and I hate to tell you but they're both well past 30.

Drew Howard · From: 48854

What younger players?

Seriously, talk to Dave Feeny of Detroit who played steel on Loretta's last CD "Van Lear Rose". He's an "out of the box" player.

cheers,

Drew

------------------

Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

Forum Index > Steel Players	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic