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Topic: Are pedals really necessary? |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 12:55 pm |
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| The Jerry Byrd web site is featuring one of Jerry's all time favorites.....a perfect example of just how much one can get out of a steel guitar with/or without pedals. Pedals have their place and can provide large chords and other "special" affects but to see what a single neck, 7-string lap steel can produce, give a listen, now at www.jerrybyrdfanclub.com I'm sure you'll enjoy it. |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 1:07 pm
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| Jerry sure didn't need pedals. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 1:20 pm
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Great playing on the "Slippery Elm" cut. That HAS to be Hank Garland on guitar. If it is not then please tell me who it is so I can build a new shrine!
What LP is that from and is the entire LP this format of Byrd and this guitarist. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 1:54 pm
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No, pedals are not "necessary". Tom Morrell persuaded me of that. But they're still "fun" and add measurably to the weight of the instrument!  |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 2:05 pm
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I believe pedals ARE necessary if you're going to play pedal steel guitar music. Pedal and non pedal (or fixed string as Jerry Byrd preferred to call it) steel guitars are different instruments.
Is the 5th string necessary on a 5 string banjo? Eddie Peabody played a lot of great music on a 4 stringed instrument.
What about 12 string guitars? We can all name countless great guitar players who only played on 6.
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Mel Culbreath
From:
Waynesville, NC, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 2:08 pm
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Ray,
By now I thought I had heard everything Jerry did but that's a new one on me. What album was "Slippery Elm" on? I've got to get it.
Mel
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 2:32 pm
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They are not "necessary" but they add to the potential of the instrument.
EDITED for spelling......
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www.genejones.com
[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 01 August 2005 at 05:04 AM.] |
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Henry
From:
Europe
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 2:56 pm
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Non-Pedalon "RAY PRICE SONGS"[This message was edited by Henry on 31 July 2005 at 03:59 PM.] |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 3:21 pm
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The cut "Slippery Elm" was taken from Jerry's Decca album "Hi Fi Guitar" from way back in the 1960's??? It was on his seven string Ric?
This tune and all others there on can be had today via Scotty's Music in St. Louis under the name: "Hi Fi Steel Guitar". Jerry had it remixed just prior to his passing as he didn't like the original mix as it was to much treble sounding, like the Fender craze of that era.
The new CD has a rich quality about it and all songs are the same. Glad you guys enjoyed it.
Now about pedals: I love pedals; I play a BIGSBY Quad since 1956 with six pedals; and an Emmons since 1972 +/- with standard 8+4 pedal set-up. I'm merely attempting to show some of the newbies that you can play steel guitar and produce rich quality without the maze of pedals to have to deal with. I have a bunch of Emmons' albums and would love to have a lesson or two from Lloyd Green...a fabulous player with distinctive Sho-Bud TONE. I have a bunch of Mr. Green's albums also. So, please don't drag me into a conflict here as "being against pedals" or whatever it is your trying for. Five string banjers and five string fiddles, etc.....I don't even care!
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 3:28 pm
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I get what you're saying, Ray. I'm not for or against with or without pedals either. I love both. You just want to show what can be done with no pedals, by a master like Jerry, lest some newbies think you can't do it unless you have pedals...
As Gene, Jimbeaux and Mike P said, they're two different instruments, they're both great in their own rights. |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 4:07 pm
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| I'd give anything to be able to play like Tom Morrell without pedals. But even if I could, for goodness sakes, I'd still want to play a pedal steel for the wonderfull things only pedals enable. |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 4:55 pm
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I don't care if you play it on a nose flute, it's just music. It can be done well or poorly regardless of what instrument one chooses. As long as we're playing music of the Western Hemisphere, there are only 12 tones in the scale (well, unless your name is Harry Partch). A toy piano or comb and tissue paper can reproduce those tones and, therefore, make valid music. (IMHO)
Are pedals really necessary FOR WHAT? Strings and picks and bars aren't really necessary if the objective is to make music.
(maybe I don't understand the question)
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 5:06 pm
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| Quote: |
| Are pedals really necessary? |
Only on a bicycle..... |
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Tom Jordan
From:
Wichita, KS
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 5:36 pm
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Well,
Pedal and non-pedal are to different instruments and personalities. I've dedicated the past two years to lap steel and all that it involves...however, there is a beautiful timbre and chord movement the you just can't reproduce on the non-pedal. You can do just as pretty work on the lap but its not pedal.
Jerry is fantasic...he sounds like he's playing a lap steel. Larry Bells' latest recording is fantastic...sounds like pedal steel. Me, since I don't want to pack lots of stuff do what I can on the lap and pull a pedal or two on the B-bender. Does it sound like PSG? Heck no, but it sounds good...kinda like a b-bender (heh, heh).
Tom Jordan |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 6:57 pm
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| Quote: |
| I'd give anything to be able to play like Tom Morrell without pedals. |
I'd give anything to be able to play,with pedals like Tom Morrell plays without pedals! |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 7:43 pm
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| I'd give anything to be able to play like Jim Cohen. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 8:47 pm
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I “GAVE” everything to play non-pedal like Jerry Byrd! It didn’t work yet, and probably won’t! Now, there’s confidence for you¡
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“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’49-’50 Fender T–8 Custom
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 9:48 pm
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Rahsan Roland Kirk played good nose flute. He never used any pedals on his sax, but sometimes played two saxes at once. I once saw him play a great avant garde fusion improv piece, while at the same time he was systematically destroying the metal folding chair he was sitting on. And he did it all blind.  |
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Klaus Caprani
From:
Copenhagen, Denmark
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Posted 31 Jul 2005 11:56 pm
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Apparantly Jerry didn't need pedals - I do!
Great guitarplaying as well!
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Klaus Caprani
MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Aug 2005 2:12 am
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I'm reading this thinking..why is this even a question ?
So here is my question as well..
Are there some of us that are thinking the only reason we play PEDAL STEEL's is that we can't play NON Pedal Steels ?
I sure hope this is not the case as these two instruments, although related and similar in execution, are NOT the same Instruments.
And we all know this..
Although I enjoy listening to the great players such as Jerry B ..I have no desire to play a NON pedal guitar.
So once again I am really curious why we would ask if Pedals are necessary..
The answer is
..YES..
if you want to play PEDAL STEEL Guitar...
The dimension of music that is capable with peds and levers is not by accident or because
those that added these changes were not capable of playing without them.. They heard MORE..and came up with a method to "Get 'er Done"...
To compare them is silly..and to take it to the next level of "I play Pedals because I can't play NON" ..is even more silly...
sorry guys..someone had to say it...
IF you are one of those that is truly proficient on both Instruments, thats awesome, but what it means is you play TWO related Instruments...
Now on the other side if this coin is that Pedal Steels are also capable of producing music without Pedals..perhaps thats the issue that many have..They don't ever go down that road...
Ok, so I guess the doors now open to ask all the NON Pedal players why they don't play Pedal Steel ?
That question is just as irrelevant.
The answer is and should be.."I don't because I don't"...." and I don't want to "....
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 01 August 2005 at 06:13 AM.] |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 1 Aug 2005 3:36 am
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Ray, thanks for the link. Great playing.
If I could play like that, I could go to heaven a happy man, pedals or not.
I think everybody has a sound they dream of.
I'm glad I played lap steel for a good while, but I kept thinking of changes I could make if I only had a couple of pedals. I spent yesterday making changes to my Dynalap while working on a pedal deal, and I doubt that I'll abandon it--it has a different tone that I love.
Hopefully I'll find that one is good for the other, and I won't be able to say which one is 'better.' |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2005 5:42 am
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Is that really no-pedals on the Ray Price cut???
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Dan Beller-McKenna
Durham, NH
Dekley S-10, Telecaster, Guild D-35, tin can
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Perry Hansen
From:
Bismarck, N.D.
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Posted 1 Aug 2005 5:47 am
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| I have dedicated my musical life learning to play non-pedal like Jerry Byrd and pedal style like Buddy Emmons. Maybe someday...... |
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Jack Therrell
From:
Conroe, Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2005 6:48 am
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| Pedal or non I think it depends on the player.However, how many folk not knowledgeable about steel, when listening,can tell the difference between pedal steel or non pedal steel. we who play steel are very keen-eared apparently. We may pick up on the difference between a sharp and a flat. Most listeners can't. So, whichever tupe of guitar is played it is all good as long as it it played with a bar. Jack |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 1 Aug 2005 11:55 am
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| Henry, who is that steeler on those Ray Price cuts, and what year was that? It does mostly sound like a very accomplished non-pedaler using a volume pedal very skillfully to imitate the late '50s pedal steel sound. If it was before the mid '50s, I would have to reverse that and say pedal steelers later imitated this earlier non-pedal sound. If it is the former, one would have to ask if a non-pedaler would ever be working so hard to imitate the pedal steel sound if there had never been a pedal steel. If it is the later, I will have to rethink everything about where the pedal steel sound came from. Either way, those are certainly very interesting cuts. [This message was edited by David Doggett on 01 August 2005 at 12:57 PM.] |
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