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Topic: Steel on "Wasn't Born to Follow"?? |
Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2005 12:37 pm |
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Yes I am a 51 year old hippie.
I was just watching Easy Rider for the millionth time and this is my favorite song on the soundtrack.
There is some steel in the mix along with White's tele and McGuinns Ric... anyone know who it was??
I know JD and Lloyd did most of the Byrds stuff... As always, the steel in this great Byrd's tune was beautiful in its simplicity and taste.. Not real fancy, but it fits like a glove.. Was it JD,Lloyd, or someone I am not aware of??/ bob |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 20 Jun 2005 12:57 pm
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Bob,
And,I've played the song about a million times. It's off of the "The Notorious Byrd Brothers" album. No credits were actually given for the steeler on NBB, but, of the 2,
LG and JDM, I believe it was Lloyd. Not sure, tho.[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 20 June 2005 at 01:58 PM.] |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Jonathan Gregg
From:
New York City
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Posted 20 Jun 2005 2:07 pm
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I played this song last Friday at a gig in NYC.
This must be "altered perception country"... the lyrics veer toward psychedelic cliche but never succumb. A great tune. |
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Mark Lind-Hanson
From:
Menlo Park, California, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2005 2:12 pm
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| I think it is most definitely steel and not (just) the bender-guitar. And I think I have read elsewhere it is Red Rhodes also. There is NOTHING that sounds quite like a pedal steel (esp. 60's era-style playing)- even Clarence(you can tell!) sounds like a bending tele. I'd have to sit down & give it alisten again to tell if it is both Clarence and Red. But it would not surprise me if it were just one player on steel (and even, possibly Clarence on acoustic) |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 3:34 am
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My mistake. I had the song "Change Is Now" in mind in my 1st reply. It is also on the NNB album, and it definitely has a little steel in it.
I don't really hear a steel in "Wasn't Born To Follow". Mcguinn starts it off with his signature 12-string fingerpicking and then of course Clarence White is all over the place as well with his stringbender.
Mcguinn has a knack for throwing old-type stuff into his latest song[s] and WBTF is no exception. That big "wash" in there harkens back to Sarah Vaughn's "The Big Hurt". Pretty clever.[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 21 June 2005 at 04:34 AM.] |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 5:48 pm
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| bump |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2005 10:45 am
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"Clarence White is all over the place as well with his stringbender."
Actually, "Notorious" had Clarence before the development of the Stringbender. All fingers there, folks. The debut of the Stringbender was on Dr. Byrds and Mr. Hyde.
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2005 11:00 am
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I know the P/W shoulder strap string bender sound well.. I have been a major Byrds fanatic since 1965.. Saw them live many times.
I am not even sure the Parsons White was around when this song was recorded.
With all due respect to my friends and collegues, I am positive there is a pedal steel in this tune, Unless I am losing it and have been since 69 when I first heard the song  bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 23 June 2005 at 12:02 PM.] [This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 23 June 2005 at 08:39 PM.] |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2005 11:52 am
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It's a nice track. And Dave Mudgett has it right: it's a B-Bender.
According to the definitive source: http://ebni.com/byrds/lpnbb.html#tracks
"Wasn't Born to Follow":
Gerry Goffin & Carole King
Rec. date: November 30, 1967
The Byrds v. 3.1
Jim McGuinn: vocals, 12 string lead guitar, 6 string guitar
Chris Hillman: vocals, bass, mandolin
Michael Clarke: drums, percussion
Except:
On "Wasn't Born to Follow"
Add Jim Gordon replacing Michael Clarke on drums
Add Clarence White on pull string guitar
(Engineered by Roy Halee)
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Red Rhodes is listed as playing on only one song: "Goin' Back."
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Mark Lind-Hanson
From:
Menlo Park, California, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2005 12:02 pm
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| Well, dang! |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2005 3:36 pm
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Tucker, sorry, but those notes are incorrect. Call Gene Parsons. The bender wasn't installed at the time of those sessions.
It's an oft-made mistake by writers who thought Clarence was playing bender even on the "Nashville West" album and "Sweetheart of the Rodeo".
Drop on by here for more Clarence lore:
www.clarencewhiteforum.com
I've been playing Parson's benders since the 70's, talked to Clarence personally about them in early '73 and Gene many times.
Edited to add one more note - upto and through the "Sweetheart" sessions in '68 Clarence was playing his white benderless Tele, now owned by Bob Warford, who later added a bender of his own design. It wasn't until he was a Byrds *member* that he began using the 'burst, with the bender being installed just before then in 68, after the Sweetheart sessions.
Hope that clarifies it a bit.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 23 June 2005 at 04:55 PM.] |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2005 5:45 pm
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Thanks for the info, Jim.
So Clarence must have been doing those bends the "old school" way. My understanding is that the b-bender was designed to replicate the kind of things that Clarence could play without a bender. He was that good...
In any event, my point was more that it wasn't pedal steel on that tune ( rather than to argue bender versus non-bender).
In particular, I don't think Red Rhodes is on that track. The tone isn't at all Red-like. And the playing isn't either. It sounds like a Tele to me...
-Tucker |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2005 7:43 pm
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Guys, you know what? Its not really worth arguing about! .. This is a song that just makes me feel good and always has.. I NEVER knew that Carole King co wrote it!!... What an amazing talent she is!
This may be my all time favorite song... for me it just NEVER sounds old .... bob |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2005 8:27 pm
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On some pre-bender things recorded in the studio, Gene Parsons would bend the string behind the nut while Clarence played up the neck. Open-string behind-the-nut bends Clarence would do himself. The need for the up the neck bends was the whole inspiration for the Stringbender.
Those are wonderful tunes. Some of my favorite Byrds stuff ever.
FWIW the original bender was made from scavenged Fender 400 pedal steel parts. I have a "lookalike" clone made with a standard Parsons-White bender (modified for a much longer pull like the original) but double-thick body...and a friend actually talked Parsons into building an EXACT copy of Clarence's - same pedal steel parts and cranky, clanky mechanism. It's a fun guitar to play. |
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Mark Lind-Hanson
From:
Menlo Park, California, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2005 12:15 pm
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Well that sounds fair to say- I always had a gripe about why they (Fender) chose to go with a one-string bend (the B) rather than the middle four (like the prototype). It really creates a whole different instrument, and the single B benders (for me anyway) hardly compare... all the bends there are in the high register.
(for my own preference, I'd wantat LEAST a
G bender!)
And yes it is (a little) surprising (isn't it) that little Carole King wrote (half the credits) for the song. I think they maybe had some deal with Melcher to use a couple of their new songs on the record or something... But then, there's a lot of stuff out there that surprises people to learn that she wrote it.
the other nice thing about this thread of course is it just proves how many of us still listen to (and learn from) what Clarence did!
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Tom Jordan
From:
Wichita, KS
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Posted 24 Jun 2005 12:26 pm
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Yeah Mark, it also teaches us to listen more closely...I've spent $thousands on PSGs and equipment since I had been lured into the world of steel by the Eagles' Peaceful Easy Feeling. I learned on the SGF that Bernie Leadon(?) played it on a B-Bender...'doh!
Tom |
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Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 25 Jun 2005 8:34 am
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+++++++
Red Rhodes is listed as playing on only one song: "Goin' Back."
++++++++
'twas not Red, but the late Carl West.
I've seen a scan of the session sheet and the steel player was not credited.
Carl was in a nearby Columbia studio cutting a Beatles cover album by country singer Jerry Inman with James Burton and others.
After the date for Inman, Glen Campbell popped in and mentioned that the Byrds were looking for a steel player and did he want the gig?.
He did.
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Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 25 Jun 2005 8:39 am
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Anyone who followed the Byrds link to the article will note the writer takes great pain to introduce the concept of the Byrds' helping to define punk and metal?
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"Renaissance Fair," this song is not particularly tuneful, but contains some nice jazzy guitar work by McGuinn. The most interesting feature of the song is the heavy guitar riff that presumably signifies the sinister Hell's Angels, who attended the event in question. It's difficult to tell whether McGuinn or Crosby is playing that riff, although it anticipates the heavier sound of several songs on the post-Crosby LP Dr. Byrds & Mr. Hyde, not to mention the sound of heavy metal and even punk.
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Uh, yeah sure.. if you forget Blue Cheer, Cream, the Velvet Underground and the Jimi Hendrix Experience ever existed.
I think we can safely say that they (the Byrds) helped define country-rock and practically invented folk-rock. |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 25 Jun 2005 8:41 am
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| * [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 April 2006 at 10:15 AM.] |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 25 Jun 2005 11:16 am
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Well, I was holding back. I'm a nut for the Byrds and always have been. But this topic is now drifting. So I guess I'll make it more of a mess.
1st off, Carol King was one of the elite employees of The Brill Building in NY. It was sort of a warehouse for songwriters, of which not only were Goffin & King a team, but
Barry & Greenwich, Sedaka & Greenfield and Mann & Weil.
This congloberation produced a large percentage of pop hits in the late 50's,
early 60's.
"He's So Fine" and "One Fine Day" by the Shirelles were just a few other Carol King
gems.
And another great one of hers, that she backed up James Taylor on, was "You've Got a Friend".
Not to mention her all-time classic creative moment - "Tapestry".
And, you should hear her play the piano!
What an artist!
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2005 9:15 am
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| Carole King & Gerry Goffin also wrote the classic "He Hit Me (And It Felt Like A Kiss)". |
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Pat Burns
From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2005 11:58 am
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| ..I thought that was Tina Turner... |
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Mark Lind-Hanson
From:
Menlo Park, California, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2005 12:47 pm
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Rennaisance Faire, I think is a sae guess both Crosby AND Mcguinn are hitting that riff. But how do you get Hell's Angels from it???- AND can we be the first to bury the Velvet Underground forever? Their first two albums are both so out of tune (blame John Cale!) and screechy- SOMEONE had to think this was avant garde- well, I can't listen to that stuff no more. "Heroin" had great music but horrid subject matter- and to think, Lou Reed once had the cheek to call the Grateful Dead "untalented"- he should talk. Guess who lasted longer & accomplished more? It's hard to compare the Byrds to Blue Cheer, either- maybe if you subtract McGuinn's 12 string and look at them as another 4-pc band- but- listen to "Hey Joe" on the Monterey performance- the Leaves (even) beat them on that one...
Yeh, Carole King wrote a lot of great stuff and Tapestry is probably A Classic album- hardly a dislikeable tune on the whole thing.
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Kevin Macneil Brown
From:
Montpelier, VT, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2005 1:53 pm
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| Perhaps the confusion about Hell's Angels actually comes from a line in the lyrics of the song "Tribal Gathering"--On NOTORIOUS BYRD BROTHERS; another dreamy, pretty, sort of utopian/Aquarian Crosby (And Hillman) song with a theme similar to that of "Rennaisance Fair." [This message was edited by Kevin Macneil Brown on 27 June 2005 at 02:53 PM.] |
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