Do You Have to Pedal A Pedal Steel?

Joy Wofford · From: Battle Creek, Michigan, USA

I'm posting this in No Peddlers because right now that's what I am, and I need to know if anyone else does (doesn't)do this? Are there non-peddlers behind some of those PSG's I see?

I've been thinking about moving "up" to a console, instead of a lap steel, but am wondering...I see so many people move from no pedals to pedals...if I were to get a pedal steel right off the bat, could I just NOT use the pedals and just play it as a console if I never learned to use the pedals? Chances are that I'd want to learn the pedals, but I'm asking just incase I find I'm in over my head with them (pedals).

I just plain don't know enuff about Pedal Steels to know if I HAVE to use the pedals to make it sound right? I mean, I KNOW to get the full potential out of a PSG I'd want to use the pedals, but it seems to me that if it's feasible to play PSG without using the pedals (console?), but knowing that eventually I might want to try PSG....wouldn't it save me a lot of money to just start right out on a PSG but use it as a Console for now?

I need to know pros and cons with this idea, please. I guess my main question is, can a PSG be played as just a console steel?

Thanks again everyone,

Joy

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

I'm not the most qualified to answer on this one, but that has never stopped me before...

I would say yes, it can be done.....but, (there's always a but) here are two important factors to consider.....

a psg has a different sound than a non pedal

a psg has ten strings (or 20) and a close string spacing

My opinion FWIW (for what it's worth - saw your abrev thread in feedback)

Nope!

[This message was edited by HowardR on 02 September 2005 at 09:08 PM.]

Dan Sawyer · From: Studio City, California, USA

Of course, you don't have to use the pedals. Just keep in mind that PSGs are much more complicated to set up mechanically and are much heavier to carry around. If you do decide to go with a PSG, get a something like a Carter Starter or a GFI student model with 3 pedals and one neck.

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

I was using a Fender 1000 as a non-pedal D-8 for a while.

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

I would consider maybe gettin a Stringmaster or something like that. I own a Carter D10 and I play the C6 neck without using pedals most of the time. the E9 neck would not realize it's full potential without usin the pedals in my opinion.

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55' Fender Stringmaster T8, 54' Fender Champion, Carter D-10, two Oahu laps, two National laps, and two Resonators

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

A PSG does not necessarily have 10 strings.

I have a Fender 400 in A6 tuning with 8 strings and 6 pedals - I'm just learning, and not using the pedals at all except on my own to experiment. Every lesson or tune involved in the learning process is without pedals.

This morning I was fooling with an arrangement of Walk Don't Run - no pedals.

I couldn't answer about the E9 tuning (one of the two "normal" 10 string tunings along with C6) since my experience with it was very short-lived, but the various 6th tunings seem to work quite well without pedals.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 03 September 2005 at 07:58 AM.]

George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

i wouldn't do it FWIW...got to consider the string spacing, for slants, also tone is different, weight, it can be done i suppose, and if you are going to play only country music, you stand a better chance of success. But for anything else...forget it..just something about the way these non peddlers play those non pedal steels that i have learn to love and respect. i sure wish i could do it like they all do....

Kay Das · From: Los Angeles CA

joy, think of them as two different instruments, and if you do start with a pedal steel you can still play non-pedal style. billy van hew, basil henriques and many japanese artists use/d the pedals to gain chord variations rather than for glissando. there are some differences: as pedal steels have 10 or more strings and lap steels 6 to 8, they are pitched closer and so playing technique differs, bar slant angles are different; also pedal steel pick-ups generally sound different. but my experience is that if you start with an instrument with a clean sound you can re-create almost any sound with electronics processing on the board.

they are both the loveliest of instruments and in my opinion, they also combine well ( my attempt on the hsga website at "i love you because" is an example. in "sand" i play pedal steel, pedals used but not for glissando, and try to get a hawaiian sound.

hope to have been of some help...

tropical regards,

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kay

Jeff Strouse · From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA

I don't have a pedal steel, but if I got one, it would be an old Fender or something...where the string spacing is wider. I probably wouldn't use the pedals anyway since it's more complicated to set up, and I've heard the Fender pedal system isn't held in very high regard by pedal enthusiasts. I've thought it would be nice to have a guitar with one or two pedals...just to get some of those classic effects when desired.

It would be nice if a company would make a short scale pedal steel with a bit wider string spacing, so us non-pedal folks could utilize one (with) or without the pedals. But, it would probably be too expensive to produce for the small market that would be interested.

Most guys who play both tell me they are two different instruments like Kay said.

Jeff, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Fender 1000. What are the reasons you prefer not to use it anymore?

Mike Ruffin · From: El Paso, Texas, USA

Joy
Chuck at Desert Rose guitars in Tucson will build you a guitar without pedals. He can add them at a later date. He builds a beautiful guitar. I met him at the Steel Guitar show in Dallas and talked to him about doing the same thing.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Boy, that's a cool idea, Mike. You could like that, Joy.

Webb Kline · From: Orangeville, PA

An E9 neck would be worthless without pedals imho. However, the C6 neck can really rock with or without pedals.

If you're going to go for it, don't woory about the pedals. It'll all come together for you.

Simple E9 pedal theory 101: The A and B pedals give you the 4 chord (if playing open E and depressing the A and B pedals, it becomes an A), pressing the A pedal gives you the 6 minor (open E becomes a C minor), pressing the B and C pedals gives you the 2 minor (open E becomes F# minor). You can do a lot of steelin' with just the A and B pedals.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

One of my steels is a Kline U-12, E 9th/B6th. I bang over that knee lever and play Western Swing without the pedals all the time. Works great! Slants can be a bit tight, but you get used to it. You might like one of those old Shobud/Baldwins. A lot of them were C 6th guitars, and they're not too expensive. I've got one, it's a gas! I'm setting it up for blues right now.

Joy Wofford · From: Battle Creek, Michigan, USA

Well, there are many different opinions on this topic I see. Seems that the overall concensus is that it can be done, but it wouldn't be really easy (lets quantify that by saying as easy as a PSG can be, lol), and unless I want to be somewhat limited in what I play, it's not the greatest of ideas...but it IS do-able.

Maybe I should add to this by saying that I'm no kid, meaning that at this stage of my life I'm only learning this for my own pleasure, I'll never "play out" with it. I want to be able to play it well enuff to enjoy, to understand what I'm doing (?), but it's very likely that the only other person that will ever hear me play will be my husband. So I don't have any concerns about being able to play all the bells and whistles. I just want to be able to make good music. I'm probably TOO practical minded about this, that's why I wondered about being able to pay just one price and get it ALL.

So, you've all given me much food-for-thought on this subject. As always I find the vast well of knowlege and experience on this Forum bottomless, and I give my heartfelt thanks for the time each and every one of you took to answer and offer your own thoughts and ideas about this. Please be assured that in the coming weeks I'm going to re-read and re-read this thread, combing thru all of it carefully. If I reach some kind of decision, I'll let you know. That's the very least that I can do.

Again, thanks everyone, it's greatly appreciated.

Joy

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Joy, I'm no kid either; my wife is one of few who get to hear my 'artistry:' I don't intend to 'play out', I'm not concerned with hot licks--I steel for fun.

You can make it anything you want to.
I've switched pedals and levers around, changed the tuning to a very open E, with bigger bass strings. The basic pedals just allow you a few changes you can do while keeping the hands still. Doesn't have to be hard; it can be fun just as easily.

No worries; just being happy.

Jim Bates · From: Alvin, Texas, USA

The basic answer is YES! Put your own tunings on it and play away. I use an E 13th and a C6th on my pedal steel guitars, and can play a luau or a western swing job without the pedals on it - and have done so.

Slants are no problem - if you practice them.

Thanx,
Jim

Paul Norman · From: Washington, North Carolina, USA

If you ever lay your bar across the 3rd fret which is G and press A & B pedals and get a
C without moving up 5 frets with the bar you
will soon be addicted to the pedals.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

This thread is a real Joy

It's interesting to hear the various takes on this one and raises a concept that I will post on a separate thread.

What would be the ultimate hybrid?....."a non pedal pedal steel"

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

*

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 05 April 2006 at 04:48 AM.]

Ian Finlay · From: Kenton, UK

If you play a 6th tuning (I use A6) and do a slant to go from I to IV9, you'll be hooked on slants!

I use both - on a standard setup Fender 1000, I use pedals to get a dim7th, plus a slant to move the low 5th down a semitone. And no glisses!

Ian

Robert Corwin · From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

I recently did a great interview with Calvin Cooke for a book I'm working on. As the principal steel guitarist for the Keith Dominion of the House of God for three decades, Calvin has been the primary influence for nearly every sacred steeler alive, including Robert Randolph and the Campbell Brothers. In fact, it was Darrick Campbell, who plays 8 string lap steel, who first introduced me to Calvin as his mentor.

Watching Calvin, I was surprised to see that he hardly ever touches the pedals on his 10 string pedal steel guitar. He then told me that he only occassionally uses them for effect.

A couple of weeks ago, when I was with the Campbells, I was curious to have a closer look at what Chuck Campbell does with his pedals, and was surprised to see how little he uses them!

Then again, these folks have broken the mould when it comes to steel guitar!

David Doggett · Posted 5 Sep 2005 7:04 pm

Joy, you can play a pedal steel without pedals. But looking at your original question, I don't think you would save much money by getting a pedal steel and playing no-pedals. You can get a decent lap steel for a couple hundred bucks. And an inexpensive small new or used tube amp would sound great with it for learning and practice. A lot of top pedal steel players actually advise starting on non-pedal, the way most of them did. Even a student pedal steel will cost several times more money, and you really need a volume pedal and steel guitar amp to get the sound.

So why not start with a lap steel and small amp. If you feel that is too limited, and decide you want to get the pedal steel sound. Then you can put out the bigger bucks for a pedal steel rig, and you haven't wasted much on the lap steel (many pedalers love to keep their old lap steel around in addition to their fancy pedal rigs).

As far as playing a pedal steel with no pedals, I agree with those above who say that E9 is not a great tuning without pedals, but C6 is a great tuning, with or without pedals, especially for country and Western swing. But if you want the pedal steel sound that has dominated country music since the late '50s, you will want to try E9 with pedals. Don't be afraid of the pedals. They actually make it easier to play a lot of standard country. You start out using only a couple of pedals and a couple of knee levers to play a huge amount of standard country. All the complicated extra pedals and knee levers are for fancy pro licks or jazz. Many players never use all the extra stuff. That's one of the secrets of pedal steel.

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

Joy says,

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I'm already played out, thanks. I like steel just for the sound; happy just to hear and record it at home.
But I do agree, it's the best way to hone your skills.

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

Joy. go ahead. if you see a deal on a pedal steel guitar go for it.
I did, I have no regrets.
sure it is a different beast. I love learning; it'll will keep my brain healthy.

PSG is challenging for sure. but the sound and experience is well worth it.

you can, as I have, played w/o pedals. but you will, like me, want to push on them to see what happens.

and then you'll be hooked.

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