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Topic: Just an idea, anyone interested? |
Stephen LeBlanc
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 8:59 am |
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| .................. [This message was edited by Stephen LeBlanc on 08 January 2006 at 10:05 AM.] |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 9:26 am
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Stephen,
I like the song,it is very nice.Sounds great without any steel at all.If I was to produce that song I would probably go with a good dobro player,I have a feeling that dobro would work better for the song.Good job with the guitar and singing tho.
Db
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"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html
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Stephen LeBlanc
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 9:31 am
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| thanks Damir, I'll will take that into consideration...but dang if I haven't gotten used to hearing steel on this tune, I dunno |
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Stephen LeBlanc
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 9:46 am
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ugh...I just listened to the 'no steel' version...actually hadn't ever listened to it all the way through that way.
yes, it does sound good sparse like that, maybe a compromise would work, still have pedal steel but less of it? all ideas welcome 'cause I am feeling unsure about it now
all that said, I'm still leaning toward having pedal steel on it in some fashion, I love pedal steel and think there's a decent part for it in the chords
haha, I knew this would happen, the internet is full of chefs with great recipes, wish someone had told me the tune would be better with no steel a while back, I never get enough criticism |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 9:53 am
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Stephen,
I'm listening to this song for the second time.
This may not be what you're asking for, but it's what I hear.
You may have an idea about what you want in the song, and the outcome is perhaps not what you expected. But given the type of material it is--good, down-home singing, tonic over flat 7 in the bass, a nice acoustic feel, nice stops--the steel playing is, I think, just what it should be. The arrangement calls for what you're playing, rather than things you may hear that you don't think youre doing. The result is unusual chords, always complementary to the vocal, with steel parts that echo that moving three-part harmony that we associate with this kind of music.
Want to hear a Nashville hit? I don't. I like it just like this. You're there with the ensemble, and too much steel would detract from the whole song.
Just my opinion. I think it's one of the finer tracks I've heard here, but it's the kind of music I'd like, and the kind I'd like to produce. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 9:59 am
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Stephen... Please don't sell yourself short my friend..
I have heard AND played worse than that.. From what I heard, you are certainly capable of adding a steel part that would work well in this very nice tune... I heard a few nice ditties on your steel, and liked the tone you had.
. I would never take the liberty of telling you how to play on YOUR tune, let me just say this.. consider a little less "movement".. not so "busy".. try a few very simple quiet licks in strategic spots, perhaps some well placed harmonics, a little more reverb/delay on the steel maybe.. I can't say exactly what you need to do, but keep trying to get YOUR playing on this tune.,
Your heart is good, you are a "team" player,, but I would really like you to keep at this until YOUR steel is on YOUR song.. hang in there!!
You ARE capable of adding the right parts... I wish you the best!! bob |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Charles Dempsey
From:
Shongaloo, LA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 5:21 pm
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That song was made for dobro.
Charlie |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 5:52 pm
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Damir.. No argument my friend.. I wasn't disputing your original reply.. Dobro would certainly be quite nice in the tune!.. I was just encouraging Stephen to stick with it.. It would be fine with dobro OR steel, but I think Stephen should work the parts out and play them,because he is not too far off from what the song needs.. I felt he was underselling his ability a little bit  bob |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Les Pierce
From:
Shreveport, LA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 7:29 pm
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Stephen,
Have you gotten any takers, yet? I think it's a great idea, if just to hear other players take on the song. Internet collaborations are going to be the thing of the future, I think.
I do agree, that your style fits the song very well, and you sound in tune with good tone, to me. I think if you went back, and re-cut your part, trying to stay off the vocals a little more, it would sound very nice. (No need to catch every chord change as it happens, the guitar is taking care of that, just add the color). Reminds of the steel on the old James Taylor records.
You play it better than I could.
Les
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Stephen LeBlanc
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 7:29 pm
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you guys are far too kind
I appreciate the votes of confidence...yeah if I keep at it I can probably get the right part on my own.
I do have a Dobro and play it pretty well, however, compared to "REAL" dobro players I, well, suck
nah, I might try to play dobro on it see what happens, I'm a lot more confident on it than Pedal Steel.
If any of the Pedal Steel players here think they can record a track that really works for the tune, I am still welcoming the help, I would be honored to have a real player on my album. That said, I've never relied on anyone, that's the only reason I even have a catalog of recordings, I just do it.
Bottomline, this tune (or this version anyway) is done as far as I'm concerned, I just think it could use a better player on the slide, Dobro or Steel...maybe I am selling myself short, I dunno, I've been around a while, I know music pretty well, I'm thinking my Steeling, good enough or not ain't good enough for my standards. Ah but almost nothing I ever record lives up to my standards...I hate having to do it all myself, I dream of the day when I can hire pros to help me make this music.
blah, if anyone wants to try to record something, it would be appreciated...but if no one is 'feeling it'...yeah, I'll finish it one way or another.
Regardless, thanks to all for the great feedback.
Peace |
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Stephen LeBlanc
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 7:32 pm
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| Quote: |
| I think if you went back, and re-cut your part, trying to stay off the vocals a little more, it would sound very nice. |
the beauty of working in the digital domain AND having my own studio to do it in is that I can just tailor the track I already recorded by taking out some of the extra crap. I could try recording a new take too...actually with the practicing I've been doing, a new take might be a WHOLE lot better...I dunno.
Still open to anything. |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 8:28 pm
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Stephen,
when I listen the song I can`t come up with anything that I would play and that would add anything more or make the song better.It is already a nice song and I would probably screw it up.It would take a real master to put some steel on it to make it better than what already is.What I can see are mostly some nice single note slides on right places,and that`s why I suggested a dobro,dobro adds much more with single notes than steel does (to me) because of it`s characteristic tone.I guess,what I`m trying to say is that this song sounds just fine and it`s almost done and it sounds very good the way it is.
Db
ps
if you decide to go with a dobro idea,please post the sound link so I can see if we did get something or maybe I was totaly wrong.
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"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html
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J Hill
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2005 8:34 pm
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Stephen,
I like the steel, the soloist, the song, the harmony, the beat...something about it is very nice that I can't explain. Reminds me of something years ago I think. I don't know why you don't like your steel playing on it. I think its beautiful.
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 1:08 am
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Stephen, heres my take..but keep in mind , I'm a hack..
The song is VERY good..You didn't say who wrote it or who is singing but the tune is good..
Most session producers have an idea ahead of time what they may like to do to color the song, so they leave room on the tracks to add color....
The issue with this track in my view is not really the Steel..but rather the Acoustic strumming is not really leaving any OPEN area for Steel fills.
Your Steel is fine..simple fills, I would maybe play more single line or chime phrases..but maybe a new take for the Acoustic with the Steel in mind..maybe a section of the song intended for Steel fills or maybe even a 4 bar turn around..
Generally, and this is just my opinion..Folky songs like this one are very heavy in Acoustic syncopation and are very difficult for FILL Instruments, be they Guitar , Piano or ..uhh..Steel...
Try playing Steel behind a Richie Havens tune and you will see what I mean...
I do really like the song as it is, maybe play a little less..play maybe in just a few dedicated places in the song rather than thru the whole song..really listen to the song and find the places that you can play with minimal conflict.
just my take..
t. |
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 2:59 am
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Since you're producing the album, what I suggest is that you record your steel on it another 20 times (at least). Stand back objectively and listen to what you like and what you don't. Everytime you re-record the steel, try to use the things you liked but also play with some new techniques and styles. Do it 50 times if you want. If you get sick of it, take a break and come back. I think you'll end up refining it and then getting it to the point where you like what you did.
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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]
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Robert Cook
From:
Collierville,TN
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 3:40 am
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Stephen,
Very nice song. I listened to both versions a few times and for my half of two cents I keep hearing a piano in the first verse and last chorus. The steel would be low and as mentioned by others just in the pocket where it needed to be and I definitely hear a dobro on the bridge. There's nothing wrong with your playing; the song has a lot of nice elements to it. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 3:45 am
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"The issue with this track in my view is not really the Steel..but rather the Acoustic strumming is not really leaving any OPEN area for Steel fills."
I think Tony has hit the nail on the head.
Perhaps the fullness of the production is what stimulates suggestions for Dobro.
Les raises a good point, with internet file sharing. I've done it (on bass), but the producer wanted a wav. file for fidelity sake, thus requiring me sending him a cd with the part on one track and the backtracks on the other track, so they could be syncd up.
Tricky.
Still, I like your steel part fine. Less acoustic in the mix? a little more 'airy?' |
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Stephen LeBlanc
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 8:45 am
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| Quote: |
| Since you're producing the album, what I suggest is that you record your steel on it another 20 times (at least). Stand back objectively and listen to what you like and what you don't. Everytime you re-record the steel, try to use the things you liked but also play with some new techniques and styles. Do it 50 times if you want. If you get sick of it, take a break and come back. I think you'll end up refining it and then getting it to the point where you like what you did. |
Jeff,
I do appreciate your pov, however, that is the antithesis of what I do...if I worked that way, everything that is good/special about my music would be gone...and then, what would be the point in doing it?
I don't want to be a computer...when you do something over and over you're just trying to be a computer, right?
haha...don't take that the wrong way, I'm not judgeing the way anyone else works.
fwiw, I never record more than 3 takes for anything I do...if I can't get the magic going I don't wanna do it. This does become a problem when playing instruments I haven't learned yet (pedal steel) but that's why this thread is here.
In otherwords...I don't want to jerk off all afternoon and evening trying to do what a real player would do first or second take
I did edit my Pedal Steel tracks a bit and used parts of more than one take but all of it was from live takes, only 3 of them
There is a song on the main SLEB cd where I rerecorded pedal steel tracks several times, I was a lot newer to the steel then...y'know what? I still like my original takes best on that, even though they're way out of tune
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 8:56 am
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I realized how studios work while invited to be at the Vassar Clements recording session with "back porch swing band".Producer recorded Vassar`s fiddle about 20 times on different tracks and after that patched a single truck out of those 20 using only a segments he liked.No need to say,it sounded great.I was little disapointed but that is how they work,I`m sure they have pre-recorded fils and loops they can use without a player even being in studio.I still think the only way to catch a atmosphere and feeling of the song is to record the whole thing at once.But I`m a dinosaur anyway.
Db
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"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html
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Stephen LeBlanc
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 8:57 am
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quote:
Stephen, heres my take..but keep in mind , I'm a hack..
The song is VERY good..You didn't say who wrote it or who is singing but the tune is good..
Most session producers have an idea ahead of time what they may like to do to color the song, so they leave room on the tracks to add color....
The issue with this track in my view is not really the Steel..but rather the Acoustic strumming is not really leaving any OPEN area for Steel fills.
cool comments Tony
I wrote, sang and played everything on this except the lead vocal which is my wife Elly
yeah, it's a busy track but I think people can handle it ...it starts getting subjective at this point and I am no hack, I do break rules a lot and so not everyone gets it, I'm not into mainstream writing/producing like I used to be...but I mostly know what I'm doing
I am quite sure the Pedal Steel is too busy, it's not normally a lead instrument in this type of tune. But I'm not doing math problems here, it's very emotional for me playing my Dad's steel...I am tributing him in everything I do, I could never explain to anyone how much he meant to my music or this song even, he was alive when I wrote it, we actually performed it together once.
So, all that said, I'll try some stuff this afternoon, I think I know what I need to do...thought I might get lucky with this thread, not a big deal really
All of the feedback has been very helpful...thanks to all for listening and taking the time to comment
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Stephen LeBlanc
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 9:02 am
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| Quote: |
| I realized how studios work while invited to be at the Vassar Clements recording session with "back porch swing band".Producer recorded Vassar`s fiddle about 20 times on different tracks and after that patched a single truck out of those 20 using only a segments he liked |
I've been on those sessions...not fun.
But I've also been present at some really great sessions where everything was done in 3 or less takes...some of these sessions have been praised mightily on this forum in the past.
David Bowie always had a 3 take rule on his early albums (which are all very good and stand the test of time)
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 11:28 am
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To enhance this song with steel, all you have to do is play fills.
I'm sorry to be blunt, but why is the steel playing the melody alongside the singer?
This is a well known recipe for disaster. Just play the fills, for chrissake. |
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 12 Jun 2005 11:39 am
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| Quote: |
| I don't want to be a computer...when you do something over and over you're just trying to be a computer, right? |
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| I never record more than 3 takes for anything I do...if I can't get the magic going I don't wanna do it |
You are certainly entitled to your point of view, and if indeed the "magic" is gone, then you know yourself best. HOWEVER, just for your information, no less a player than Lloyd Green commented that on an Alan Jackson solo, they did 15 or 20 attempts (I forget the exact number, but it was A LOT), before they finally got something they were happy with. And I'm positive that a lot of the great fiddles, guitar, and steel playing you hear on popular coumtry music is done with MANY attempts and loads of overdubs. AND furthermore, by taking this "3 times and I'm done" point of view, you lose the opportunity to improve on what you are doing, and this all for the purpose of some perceived "magic" that may not in fact be noticed by the listener. You are entitled to feel as you do about all this, but IMHO, it's a flawed point of view.
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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]
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...I listend the version without a steel first and song striked me as a great song for the dobro.I like the song just the way it is and some busy steel licks would possibly do more damage than good overall.Dobro could be done simple and with a few nice licks in the background and add a lot of caracter to the whole picture without taking anything away from the vocal.Some complicated chords on steel (IMHO) would possibly take the atmosphere and original idea of the song in totaly different direction.Sometimes less is more.