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Topic: Tuners and i don't get along |
Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 9:52 am |
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yep,i been playing for 40yrs.and now i try to use a peterson11 tuner,and some more also.after i tune with them,i find myself adjusting to my ear.am i crazy,or what.
people tell me man you don't need a tuner,and i just wondering what is going on.
I;m never happy with the tuners.mabe its just my ear,i don't know. farris |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 22 May 2005 12:39 pm
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You can tune with a tuner but you also have to have the guitar in tune with itself. A tuning chart such as the Newman Tuning Chart, or in the case of the VS-II the built in tuning is not for everyone. It is a good reference point but you have to develop your own "tuning chart".
I have my own tuning "chart", for my Franklin D-10, programmed into the the two user memories in the VS-II.
Once you develop what is needed for your guitar to be in tune, you can then program it into the VS-II. The VS-II is much more accurate than any other tuner one the market (except some other model Peterson's)."Close" with the Peterson is more accurate than many needle or LED tuners. |
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Hal Higgins
From:
Denham Springs, LA
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Posted 22 May 2005 12:47 pm
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I use a korg tuner and basically tune my E's on the E neck and the C's on my C neck and then tune the rest of the guitar harmonically with itself......and It's never out of tune......for me it's the best way. HAL
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Be Blessed........HAL
'85 Emmons LeGrande D-10,(8 & 6) Hilton Vol. Pedal, BJS Birthstone bar, Rack w/Evans Pre-amp, Lexicon MPX500; (2)1501-4 BW's in custom built cabs by T.A. Gibson, & Sound Tech PL802 Digital Power Amp.
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Robert Thomas
From:
Mehama, Oregon, USA
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Posted 22 May 2005 2:25 pm
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This is a fun topic.
I have been playing steel for about 60 years. Before tuners I tuned by ear and never had a problem. 35 years ago I switched to a D-10 8+4 PSG and acquired a tuner. I have tuned, since then, always straight up and have never had a problem or have anyone complain I was playing out of tune.
Isn't this fun! Each person has their own way to tune and if that works for you, use it. I think that in most cases if you try to tune in a way that is not familiar to you, it will not sound right. Most of the people that I know or have asked, always tune straight up, but that does not necessarily make it right for you.
Good luck! |
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Jennings Ward
From:
Edgewater, Florida, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 2:41 pm
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FERIS , I WILL TELL YOU WHAT WAS TOLD TO ME.. I WAS DISCUSSING COPENDANTS WITH BUDDY EMMONS 4 OR 5 YEARS AGO, WHAT TO AND WHAT NOT TO DO. HIS STATEMENT TO ME WAS , AND I QUOTE HIM " THEY { THE TUNINGS} MUST BE PLEASING TO THE EAR " UNQUOTE.. AND YOU CAN BET YOUR BOOTS THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOOUT BEING IN " TUNE " . I TOO HAVE A PETERSON TUNER, IT IS GREAT, BUT I STILL RELY ON MY WELL TRAINED EARS THAT HAVE SUFICED FOR 70 YEARS TO BE MORE CORRECT IN THE FINAL ANALAYSIS..... HOPE THIS HELPS.....BECAUSE IT WORKS......MY D 10-10-10 STAYS IN PERFECT TUNE EVEN WHEN I HAVE TO RETUNE IT... TAKE MY WORD FOR IT................P.S. I DONT TO EVEN USE A ******, AND THATS A FACT..... WHOULD YOU COULD DO IS GET A LONG TAILED TOM CAT, PUT HIS TAIL UNDER YOUR PACKASEAT AND TUNE IN UNISON TO THE CAT.........JENNINGS
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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 2:46 pm
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If I was in that position, I'd probably get that Jeff Newmann™ chart, and I guess you can program it into the modern tuners so it will say you are in tune.
I suppose though if you are off the open position, you can have presets to represent each string in a different position relating to what part of the chord it is, or what it functions as in a substitution.
Piece of cake.
EJL |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 22 May 2005 2:57 pm
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Each band you tune to is different, so the best you can do is try to tune so that when you play it doesn't "scare the horses"!
www.genejones.com
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 22 May 2005 4:22 pm
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Sounds about right to me, Gene!
(The rest of this post was edited as it apparently offended someone.)[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 23 May 2005 at 07:49 AM.] |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 4:30 pm
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Ordinarily I'd let this one go by, but I've got a few minutes to kill before "Deadwood" season finale.
I've NEVER seen two tuners in ANY of the more than hundred bands I've played with be different unless they didn't work at all or were calibrated to a different A.
Not even once.
It's one of those excuses that some bonehead (Not you Donny, but in the band the suggestion comes up in) invariably comes up with in a band that has a fret mashing guitar player, a fiddler that can't keep from following out of tune vocalists, or a steel player that "tunes beats out".
There are as many excuses to being out of tune as there are for not playing steady tempo. I thought though that I'd heard most of them til I started reading here..
I'm sure one more new one will turn up..
EJL |
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John Daugherty
From:
Rolla, Missouri, USA
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Posted 22 May 2005 4:37 pm
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The best I can figure is: those "offsets" for tuners compensate for cabinet drop. It is a compromise between the tuning with no pedals down and the tuning with pedals down.
The cabinet drop is different for different guitars. I got aquainted with my guitar,with practice, and know about how to compromise the tuning by looking at my Korg rack mount tuner. Farris, you don't have to be too close in tune anyway. That P0SSUM gallery you play to in your back yard is very forgiving.... I know it's true because Jennings told me so. |
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Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 4:42 pm
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This is good subject,like to hear different peoples opinions,Number one is i'm not a pro.so i don't play big building much.if i can hear for the noise,give me 3 mins.and i'm ready to play.also,got the lead guitar,and fiddle,ect.trying to tune.then when everone gets right,hit it with them and test.now a piano is another story!!haha
These little country churchs,you never know.not so much anymore,but 20yrs ago,old upright pianos,WOW. lots of fun!!i tune by ear,and thank the GOOD LORD,thats for me. |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 5:00 pm
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John,didn't know Jennings told you about all that man!!!now i use Betsy the milk cow when she wants feed,she mooooos in KEY OF A,
the rooster crows in D,and the dog barks in key of F so what more do a man need?? haha
farris |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 5:37 pm
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I dunno Gene. Did you ever suggest that all the band's different tuners read differently being the reason they were playing "out of tune"?
I can't see you doing it.
EJL |
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Neil Lang
From:
Albert Lea, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 22 May 2005 5:43 pm
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Farris,
I use a Korg chromatic tuner and the old Jeff Newman chart. I have used it for over 25 years now. My wife plays keyboards alot with me, it always sounds in tune to us. No complaints from the crowd? Fast, easy, noise or no noise. Guess it doesn't work for everyone? But remember, these are all Sho-Buds I'm playing! a gotta LOVE EM!
Neil (Bud-Nuts) Lang |
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Jim Peters
From:
St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 5:48 pm
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OK Eric, here's one for you:
This past Christmas I had a gig wih my CSNY group, myself on accoustic, , my wife and the other guitarist. We followed a rowdy set by The Soulard Blues Band, our first song was Joni Mitchell's Circle Game, in front of 200 loud and raucus people.
We each had our own tuners, never any problems- until now.
Circle Game's in Bb, capo on the first fret. Still with me? 1,2,3,4 first chord and whoa! What the hell is that?!
Our guitars were a good quarter tone apart! Of course I yelled at Dan to check his tuning 'cause I knew mine was right on, but I double checked any way.
1,2,3,4....Ouch!
Remember that loud crowd? They're even louder now. Well, we stop the song again, and I say give me an E, and I tuned my guitar to the other guy. The rest of our set went down from there.
Later we found out that Dan's son had recalibrated his tuner to 44(whatever), causing up till now anyway, the most embarrasing gig of my career.I always check my tuner before I use it,making sure that is is 440. |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 5:59 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...or were calibrated to a different A. |
Yup/ Been there a time or two.
I've found that a Hz or so doesn't stick out that much, but it's always worth checking.
EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 22 May 2005 at 09:59 PM.] |
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Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 May 2005 7:03 pm
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NEIL,man you can't go wrong with a SHO-BUD!!
I can hear um hollaring now!!hahaha
yep those tuners are fine,i left batteries in mine and they leaked bad. the end.
Tuning is not that bad a deal,if everyone knows what they are doing.
seems big problems with lead guitar pushing the strings, and a fiddle keeps changing some,sounds bad. Sho=Bud,just sits there smiling hahaha farris |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 23 May 2005 12:02 am
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Eric West - how close you get to the equator, or how far away, affects the gravitational pull on the strings of a steel guitar, as does the varying pull of the sun according to different seasons. Also, it makes a big difference if a player uses picks like Newman's, with the point bent over so the string vibrate downwards more, or unbent Dunlops with the points poking out more, so that the strings vibrate more from side-to-side. Also, the pull of the moon in different phases, and seasons, has an effect on the pull on the strings - you've heard of "tides", right?
This is why it's important that players have different tuning charts for different latitudes, different seasons, and different phases of the moon. Under no circumstances should you tune an open string straight up to 440, because then if you played a 5th it would be straight up, if you played a 3rd it would be in tune with everyone else in the band's 3rds, etc. Surely this would result in utter madness. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 23 May 2005 12:53 am
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I played years, tuning to tuners and always found that the guitar sounded "foul", especially when playing alone. Then I started to distrust tuners and tweak the tuning by ear. That was BEFORE I ever read or heard or knew about Equal Temperament and Just Intonation (the tweaked tuning if you want to called it so).
The Jeff Newman chart is no secret invention, it's a Just Intonation chart for the most comon SG tunings adapted to the mechanics of PSG.
... J-D. |
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John Daugherty
From:
Rolla, Missouri, USA
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Posted 23 May 2005 5:08 am
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Farris, I know you are too young to know this. Once upon a time, there were no electronic tuners. When we tuned, the audience heard it. When the "Star" of the show was at the microphone, you DID NOT tune, talk or make any sound or gesture whatsoever. One "star" told me: "even if we are working to a dance crowd, if you must tune, find a lull in the action and do it as quietly as possible. Never tune while I am singing".
Now we have electronic tuners that allow us to tune quietly. That is why I like the tuners we have today..........JD [This message was edited by John Daugherty on 23 May 2005 at 06:10 AM.] |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 May 2005 5:16 am
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Dave M.
I heard the moon one. Also in relation to rythmic fluctuation.
However the Lattitudinal Shift gets my kudos.
I learn something new every day.
EJL |
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Robert Thomas
From:
Mehama, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 May 2005 6:06 am
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Isn't this fun?!
Sounds like some are out of tune with each other. I guess that is called being discordant.
I really enjoy the Steel Guitar Forum, really! |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 23 May 2005 6:07 am
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I'm a piano tuner.
I use a Korg to set the A and the C, and the rest has to be done by ear. Good strong 5ths, just a hair narrow from beatless. Major thirds are wide from beatless, minor thirds are narrow, and beat faster than major thirds. The fourths will come out wide as a result. Physics.
Years back, when Peterson's became popular, they were looked down upon by those of us who used our ears and not our eyes to tune.
Introduce cabinet drop into the equation, and it's insane.
I guess this means I like Hal Higgins approach the best. It should not take as long to tune a steel as it does a piano.
I predict the equal temperament will become the standard for the instrument. In the meantime, the best bands I was in tuned to each other.
Stay with the ears. They train well. You can't teach a Peterson to do anything.
Or a Korg.
Farris, you are not crazy. It's hard to be sane in a crazy world.
IMHO.
Charlie[This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 23 May 2005 at 07:10 AM.] [This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 23 May 2005 at 07:11 AM.] |
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John Daugherty
From:
Rolla, Missouri, USA
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Posted 23 May 2005 7:43 am
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| Charlie, FARRIS IS CRAZY. That is why 90% of forum members understand him. The other 10% have never lived !!!! |
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