Suggestions for better Forum communication

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Two things that I frequently see, when reading the Forum, are typing styles that make the message the writer wants to communicate much more difficult to read. If a message is hard to read, some Forumites will simply ignore the post, which I'm sure is not what the writer intended.

THE FIRST IS WRITING THE ENTIRE MESSAGE IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS, AND I'M NOT REFERRING TO THE INTERNET ETIQUETTE OF ALL CAPS MEANING THAT YOU'RE SHOUTING.

The way humans read words quickly is by recognizing the shapes of the words by their ascenders and descenders, the parts of letters that go over and below the central body of the letter. This is one reason why we can quickly decipher words that are even misspelled, or sentences that incorrectly punctuated.

Example:

WHEN WERDS THA AR IN ALL CAPS WERDS THAT AR UZYOUALLY WRITEN NORMALY EVIN WITHOWT GUD SPELING ORE PUNKSHUASHUN DONT IT MAKE IT HADRER TO REED THE DARN THING WITCH IS KNOT WHUT THE RITER INTENDUD IM SURE OF COURSE I DONT HAVE UH DAWG IN THIS HUNT BUT I DO WNANA UNERSTAN SUM OF THE GUD IDEAS ALOT OF YALL HAVE TO SAY KNOWWHUTAHMEENVERN?

Another typing style that makes the message more difficult to comprehend without added effort on the part of the reader is this:

Capitalizing The First Letter Of Every Word In The Message, Even The Shortest Of Words. Again, This Has To Do With The Eyes Of The Readers Being Able To Quickly Recognize Every Word In The Sentence, Based On The Knowledge That A Capitalized Word Either Starts A Sentence Or Is A Proper Noun, The Name Of A Person Or A Place.

I'm not a big spelling or punctuation Nazi here on the Forum, I just want to be able to quickly and efficiently understand some of the good ideas or humor that many of y'all write. Perhaps those of us who type in those styles don't realize that typing like that is a hindrance to communication.

And this forum is all about communication, is it not?

Please spare me any flaming and take what I've just said not as criticism, but simply as constructive suggestions to get your message across. These are things I learned during the 10 years I spent in the newspaper advertising business, where the readers' ability to quickly recognize what is being said is of great importance.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Dag Wolf · From: Bergen, Norway

I do agree with you Herb

[This message was edited by Dag Wolf on 15 March 2005 at 06:11 AM.]

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Herb, good points.

However, not all our forum posters are Engligh Majors and for some, just being able to post (type) is a major accomplishment. English composition does not seem to be a requirement in school anymore (along with math) as it was when I attended public schools.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

THANK YOU HERB!!

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Jack
I'm not saying people have to be English majors or even be good at spelling. I can probably decipher almost anything written here, though if it takes more effort to do so, and I'm feeling lazy, I'll just blow it off and move on to something easier to read.

Maybe folks feel that typing in all caps makes the message easier to read, when in fact just the opposite is the case.

All the writer needs to do is turn the "caps lock" key off.

A musical analogy might be this: If you want your picking to be heard, it might be better to turn the amplifier on than leave it off. And you don't have to be an electrical engineer to understand that.

Another example I occasionally see in emails I receive is where the writer chooses a beautiful ocean scene for his stationery background, with blue waves breaking over a purple horizon. Then he chooses a small font with light blue lettering. Small blue letters against a busy blue background is damn near impossible to read with 57-year-old myopic eyes!

Light letters on dark background (called "reverse type" in typesetting lingo) are also much more difficult to read. I see full page ads in Vintage Guitar magazine, which are expensive, that have very small white letters in ALL CAPS over a solid black background. The reader better be REALLY looking for something to wade through that mess!

All-caps typesetting should be short message with words in a large font. (Thank you, Jimbeaux

)

Like I said, I don't have a dog in this hunt, I'm making a helpful suggestion.

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 15 March 2005 at 06:38 AM.]

Drew Howard · From: 48854

Herb,

I'm certainly not the most educated of persons, but your topic is appreciated.

Other tips: read your post for misspellings before you hit the "post" button. Compose it in Word, which can catch misspellings and improper grammar.

thanks,
Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessy D-10 8/8, Magnatone S-8, N400's, BOSS RV-3

Roy Ayres · From: Riverview, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Neither misspellings nor grammatical errors bother me. I understand what Jack is saying; some of my friends had never touched a typewriter and had absolutely no need to learn typing before computers came along. As a consequence, they may not be aware of the various things that can make a post less readable. Also, the use of the shift key adds an additional burden for those who are not trained typists. Obviously, it is easier to just set the caps-lock key and not have to worry about when to use the shift key. I, personally, would rather see a post in all lower case than all caps. I was not aware of some of the technical reasons for this until I read Herb’s post; I just knew that I had to plod slowly through posts that used all caps. And, as to punctuation, I could care less how the writer chooses to break his post up into palatable chunks. Some use a few periods, some use a few commas, some use the dash, etc. As long as something is used to separate the various thoughts being presented, I have no complaint.

Herb, I compliment you for having the fortitude and taking the time to initiate this much-needed thread – and I fully expect some flaming to follow.

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Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com
Browse my Photo Album and be sure to sign my Guest Book.

[This message was edited by Roy Ayres on 15 March 2005 at 07:51 AM.]

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Roy
Like I said, I'm not a spelling or punctuation Nazi; I'm like you, I just need something to separate the ideas. I too would rather see all lower case than all caps, simply because it's easier to read.

Frankly, when I see a long post in all caps, the great majority of the time I just pass over it without reading it. It makes me "no nevermind," as it were.

But I think that if someone writes a post on the Forum... ANY post... they intend the others here to read it. So I'm just offering the suggestion of HOW to get more people to read it. If some folks here take it personally and want to flame me for that, they're probably not receptive to ANY kind of constructive suggestions, regardless of topic. And that is their burden, not mine. I'm just trying to help, is all.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Let us continue to make allowances for some of our less techno-capable forumites and all will be beautiful, happy and serene.

I'm thinking of Jennnings' missing caps lock key here. Jennings, you can type in all caps all you want. Happy to see your postings.

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 15 March 2005 at 12:15 PM.]

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 15 March 2005 at 12:16 PM.]

Gerald Menke · From: Stormville NY, USA

Dear Herb,

I always enjoy your articulate, friendly, informative and constructive posts, and this one is no exception. I couldn't agree with you more, and will try to take better care in my postings. One thing I would add, is that I really do think brevity is the soul of wit, but regrettably some of our comrades here will take 10 paragraphs to say what could probably be summed up in two. Unless it's Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons or Earnest Bovine, if I see some monster post, I am off a'scrollin'.

Best from chilly New York

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

how dere you say we donts not gots no good ENglish speling an punctification#

Well, I have heard one or two posters refer to their bad eyesight, and stating all caps being easier for them to see, if not for us to read. Personally, I tend to make a lot of allowances for these descrepancies, and throw them into the same category as thick accents and colloquialisms encountered when speaking to certain individuals. They make me think, or concentrate more, but no harm is really done. Sometimes, even I have skipped posts where I find the cogent information too obfuscated. But when I do, I always feel it's my own loss.

Joe Naylor · From: Avondale, Arizona, USA

Thank you Herb I agree.

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Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix)Desert Rose Guitar, Southwest Steel Guitar Association, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Association

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

I'm really hoping that no one misses the spirit of Herb's post here, which is to
foster communication between "the brethren". Folks are quick to take offense at a perceived slight, and I'm certain there is none intended here. Some of the folks who post in all caps have mentioned it's a help with poor eyesight- I can suggest adjusting your own browser for a larger font, problem solved. Probably most
people think their own latest post has at least enough merit to be read and enjoyed
by Forum visitors- but may forget that someone signing on after even a day or two
away faces several hundred messages to glance through- and anything that makes
a post harder to read may result in it being skipped over. (And frankly, I would
think anyone that's willing to tackle the intricacies of Steel Guitar shouldn't be too
daunted by punctuation, spelling, or syntax) There's a whole lot to read here every day, and it sure helps when it's as easy as possible.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Well, I must be gittin' old. I agree whole heartedly with nearly every post here. Herb, thanks for the initiative and courage. I had wanted to say the same thing many times, but my asbestos underwear is wearin' thin. And I'm really worried, too, because I understand every word in the first part of Donnie Hinson's post to the thread.

phred

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"From Truth, Justice is Born"--Quanah Parker-1904

Gary Carriger · From: Victoria, Texas

I agree with Herb, and especially with Gerald. Some names (postings)that I will not read due to the reputations they have gained due to past postings.

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

I agree too Herb. Although I remember once almost writing a "quit yelling" post to one forumite until I read somewhere that the reason he wrote in caps was that his vision was really bad and that was the only way he could see what he was writing.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Herb's suggestions are well needed, and I'm sure well heeded.

Also, one very long paragraph is difficult to read all the way through. Breaking it up into sections (separate paragraphs) make it much easier to read.

Carl Dixon was a master of the the "separate section paragraph" and his posts were a pleasure to read.

Thanks, Herb. Perhaps this should also be in the FAQ?

Klaus Caprani · From: Copenhagen, Denmark

I must admit to often skip messages written in all caps. I simply find it tiring to my eyes very quickly.

On the other hand i do not mind grammatical or spelling errors too much as long as I understand the meaning of the post, unless ofcourse somebody flames somebody else for misspellings and misspells himself in the process

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

[This message was edited by Klaus Caprani on 15 March 2005 at 01:32 PM.]

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I notice that about 10% of our new members have never used a computer or typewriter keyboard before. Seriously - this is their first keyboarding experince. I often need to guide those people through the proper use of the Shift key to type their own name.

I try to give people as much slack as possible. Someone with poor keyboarding skills might have a lot to offer in the way of steel guitar knowledge. You never know.

But those of you with good computer skills have NO EXCUSE!!

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Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator

J W Alexander · From: Reynoldsburg, Ohio, USA

My own "problem" with this forum as well as others is this hi-jacking or piling on thing---the post begins as one topic then someone replies to that specifically. Then, another poster replies totally off-topic to someone who's posted already which in the end is quite a bit more distracting and/or annoying than all caps. I'll never understand why we just don't email one another directly insteading of barging in on topics not related?

Just my humble opinion----take no offense!

J W

Tim Bridges · From: Hoover, Alabama, USA

I agree with everybody!! Herb, I'll read something that is easy to read before I will generate a headache. b0b, I'll be patient...BUT, please don't ask me to be brief.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Herb, your comments are right on, IMO. I teach Computer/Information Science at the college level, and have to struggle to convince many students that clear writing is important at all. Poor ideas don't usually sell at all, but good ideas, poorly presented, don't usually sell either.

You don't need to be an English major to write clearly. Just keep it simple, and try not to jumble up too many ideas together. There's a lot of research on this, and short sentences without a lot of multi-syllable words are physically easier to read. Frequent paragraph breaks help focus attention on distinct ideas and reduce eye strain.

Sure, not everyone is a great typist. But we should at least try to communicate as clearly as possible. IMO.

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · From: Ayrshire, Scotland

I don't understand all the acronyms. SQUMS!

Jim West · Posted 15 Mar 2005 4:36 pm

I tnihk you mkae smoe vrey iprmotnat ptoins. We suohld all srvtie to be mroe csniose and to the pniot. Ervreynoe suohld cehck tiehr sleilnpg brofe you psot. All of us on the fromun wluod get mroe form the psoted ifomnrtaoin.

[This message was edited by Jim West on 15 March 2005 at 04:46 PM.]

Jesse Harris · From: Ventura, California, USA

its etiquette, and Herb is trying to clue those who arent aware of it, if we all take a bit of heed then its better for all of us. Etiquette is not always intuitive, think table manners, or even sports like baseball and golf. Its nice to be aware of it, for everyone involved. And I think excuses like keyboard savvy and bad eyes are pretty silly considering that there are 2 second solutions to both of those problems. If you can access this forum then you can figure it out. And I don't think Herb is saying that this should be a rule, he's just saying that if you want your post to be read by thoe greatest number of people then these are tips on achieving that.

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