A musician's word is his bond...right?

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

For all the professionalism in this business, it seems there is nothing formal, just a verbal "Sure I'll do it" when accepting a gig.
It's an unwritten rule that once those words are spoken, come hell or highwater, the musician will be there.
Rarely is a musician (except the band leader) ever asked to sign a contract for a local typical gig.
What about the reverse?
What if a regular member of a group opts out of a gig because he will be out of town, the band leader gets a replacement, the replacement starts to learn the songs, then the original member cancels his trip and announces he'll be able to do the gig after all?
Is it right to cancel the replacement because he's not needed any more or do you respect the "bond" made with him when he was hired?

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

The right thing to do is to use the replacement.The regular should understand the situation he put the leader through.A commitment is a commitment. He could show up but the rreplacement deserves to be paid for his commitment.

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Smiley 15-4 Crank&pull pro model Deluxe with auto string changer.200 ft. roll.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I agree with Joe. Or, as Tony says right in his post...

Larry Behm · From: Mt Angel, Or 97362

Could you both play, more fun.

Larry Behm

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

In Nashville the sub gets the gig.

I once had a sub do a gig for me when I was out on the road. It was a club where I'd been working two nights a week for several months. Well, the owner decided to let the band go that night. He was quite amicable about it, and even gave them severance pay. NOW- who gets the severance pay, the sub or me???

C#
www.calsharp.com

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Since the sub cleared his calendar to do the gig, he should get paid for the gig. If the 'severance' is more than a gigs worth you should get the difference.

How'd I do?

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

You make the member that originally cancelled call the guy that's getting stiffed and explain the situation.

Ultimately, the bandleader should contact the sub afterward to make sure it was OK. As Joey said below, it's his band's reputation that suffers if it's not OK.

It could be a relief, as "learning a set list" can be a 40 hour week. There are all kinds of variables. All situations are different in some of the details, though the principle of respobsibility remains constant.

(I've got a dozen stories myself, and every one turned out the way it should have with the proper effort.)

If it's not OK, the stiffee will get to badmouth the stiffer (and the band thereby).

If it is OK, that's the last anybody should hear about it and the guy that got stiffed is "owed one".

If guy goes against a handshake, then his hand is not fit for any other purpose either.

I think there's a saying in latin about that..

EJL

PS. Without saying how recently, a band I was in hired a kid to play bass in a larger venue. He didn't cut the gig. The second time, he showed up and trashed another two nites. I for one didn't get my "thirty bucks worth". The bandleader's excuse was that he "figured he'd space the gig out..".

Just when you thought you'd heard it all..

[This message was edited by Eric West on 19 December 2004 at 03:09 PM.]

Paul King · From: Gainesville, Texas, USA

Once a month I go sit in with a band that provides the music for a gospel singing. The steel player is a personal friend and they let me sit in even though there are two steels. Last evening my friend show up with a set of drums. Their drummer had forgotten about the gig and was out of town so my friend played drums for the evening. Now the original drummer is a doctor so we all going to give him a hard time and ask for a free office visit. I will agree I have always just taken someone's word when it came to playing but there are some I do not believe a contract would get them there.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Your word is your bond. The sub gets the gig.

It's OK to tell the sub he can opt out of it, but it's his choice.

Otherwise the bandleader will have the rep of being untrue to his word. It will hurt him in the future in ways he might never expect.

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

Back in the early 80's I had a steady weekend bass gig. I had to opt out for a trip out of town and the leader got a fill in, who we both knew. As it happend the out of town trip was cancelled.

I went to the club Friday night around 10 pm to say hello. The leader said he thought he should keep the sub in for sat. nite as he had promised a two nite stand.

I totally agreed and had a great sat. nite out with she who must be obeyed. It worked out well for all parties involved.

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

The sub gets the gig period. Now if it turns out he can't cut the gig, it's the band leaders call to replace him or not. There's been a few times in the past I got a sub and it turned out I could've played the gig but stayed home because I hired the sub. You start going back on your word and the next time you need a sub you'll be out of luck. I wouldn't want to be the sub that got stiffed.

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

man this guys are hot..and they are all subs
I love sub`s,specialy ones with salami and swiss chese...

..but I could replace them with ham and colby..hmm. or rost beef and monteray..or...huh..I`ll be right back, kitchen is calling...

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 19 December 2004 at 04:24 PM.]

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

The gig belongs to the sub. Its a matter of being a man of your word.
Hook

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HookMoore.com
Allen Moore

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

The sub gets it, unless he is in total agreement not to play, and you know him well enough to not cause bad feelings.

BF

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

The sub gets it. The original player would have gall to even suggest otherwise. His reputation and the band leader's would be at stake.

Leigh Howell · From: Edinburgh, Scotland * R.I.P.

The sub definately should do the gig. Unless he and the regular reach an agreement between themselves that is.

Leigh

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

I had this pulled on me many years ago. I showed up for the job and was told that the regular musician was going to play it afterall. I asked if they were union. They said "NO". I said "I am, and the union will hear about this". They told me to stick around and play the job.
If they had only known....the union never did anything for me but take my money.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

The legal term for the situation is "unjust enrichment". When somebody's gettin' something they shouldn't be gettin', or vice-versa. Your conscience should be a good barometer.

Glenn Austin · From: Montreal, Canada

If the sub had to learn an entire set list, I would let him do the gig. Don't pull the plug on him, because the next time you really need a replacement you can bet that he will tell you to go fly a kite!.

I subbed on steel and guitar 2 years ago for a friend's band and it took me about 50 hours over a few weeks to learn their setlist pretty much note for note. The only problem is they have never called me back since (think what you will, but I know I did a good job). IMO it wasn't worth all the trouble. Not that I'm sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring, but if I knew that I could call someone up to replace me on relatively short notice, I would take advantage of this more often.

Rick Alexander · From: Florida, USA, R.I.P.

If you give your word to a sub and hire him for a gig, that's all there is to it. It doesn't matter if the regular player can suddenly do the gig after all. You must keep your word. And it's in very poor taste to "give him the option" to let the regular guy play because then he could feel weird about it. That's not nice. In the event he finds out the regular guy is back, you tell him - no question about it, the gig is his and you're happy to have him. Then he's more likely to do his best, and you're an honorable man.

Everything you have can be taken away from you, except your word. Only you can break it.

Unfortunately, not everyone understands this.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

It is nobody's business or right to assume that the sub would otherwise be at home sitting on his butt watching tv. In fact, everybody being professionals, it is the bandleader's duty to assume that the sub would be working elsewhere if he hadn't accepted this job. He is booked, it is his gig. Or at least his payday.

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

Boy Glen, that was waaaaaaay above and beyond the call of duty! I hope that wasn't just a 1 or 2 night gig! When I go fishing, I consider it worthwhile if I get to fish at least as long as it takes me to drive to and from the lake (and the closet big lake is 3 hrs..one way... from my house!)

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Tony P, unhappily I must report that I screwed up big time last year, booking a sub drummer, and then letting our regular guy play. I did talk to the sub and explained it to him, he was understanding, and let the reg. guy do the gig. I do feel that that was a mistake on my part, and apologized big time to the sub, who has since played with us a few times. It had happened to me the other way around, I was booked and cancelled last minute, but I will never do it again, once a sub has been booked, the gig is his, no doubt!! JP

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

Very interesting replies....frankly I did not think everyone would agree that it is the sub's gig.
Does this change things....what if the gig in question is an important, high profile gig?
Does it make sense to have the regular band member stay home just to let the sub fill in, possibly making mistakes?
(for the record, the sub in question is the bass player and I have remained neutral about it)

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Sign on the wall of our dentist's office notes that cancellations made less than 24 hours before appointment will be charged full office visit fee. Food for thought.

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