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Topic: Would This Work Today |
Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Nov 2004 5:53 am |
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Back in the 40s we wanted to broadcast over the radio from the church every sunday morning, how could we do it?
We had 1 Mike plugged into a Amp, connected two wires to the speaker in the back and hooked that up to a phone line to the station. Everything on the stage went thru that 1 mike, singing, all instruments.
It all sounded better than exspected.
I know thAT is a far cry from what they do today but it worked back then.
Even the radio people did not think it would work but it did.
Talk about the old time way of doing things, my how TIME CHANGES EVERYTHING.
Play that on C6.
ernie |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 20 Nov 2004 6:06 am
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Actually, some of the bluegrass groups still do just that. When an instrument takes a solo or a vocalist is singing lead, they just move closer to the mic. They use a large diaphragm mic that picks up everything.
You're right, though, with instruments running through a bunch of different amps it's not practical to use a single mic.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Nov 2004 8:53 am
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It may not have been practical, Larry, but it was done thousands of times over hundreds of radio stations. Baltimore had two stations that did this regularly, WBMD (which did hundreds of broadcasts from such places as King Ford), and WISZ (which did hundreds of broadcasts from Whitey Johnson's "Zebelean's Lounge).
Back when there were no "sound men" and multi-channel boards, a unidirectional mike was hooked (through a modulator - impedance matcher) right to the R&G phone wires. Placed in the center of the stage, it picked up pretty much everything, vocals, drums, and instrument amps. As Earnest said, it sounded pretty good (with a few adjustments), and I can remember we would often get inputs from listeners in their cars. (Everyone knew cars had better radios than we had at home.) Someone driving around would stop by and say "The drums are too loud", and just we'd make adjustments, playing louder or softer, until the sound was right.
Today, most of us have gotten used to having multiple mikes and controls for everything. In a sense, we've "subcontracted" the sound, our dynamics, of the performance. But there was a day...when we did it all ourselves (we had to), and every every live gig was recorded or broadcast using just one mike.
When one mike's all you've got, the word "impractical" never enters your mind. And just because someone today thinks you can't get a good sound with one mike doesn't mean it can't be done. It was done! The majority of recordings made through the mid '50s were made with just one mike. [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 20 November 2004 at 08:54 AM.] |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 20 Nov 2004 9:53 am
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Perhaps I wasn't clear
I was certainly not debating whether it was ever done. I did radio and tv in the late 50's and early 60's when that practice was common, too. My point was that no engineer in his right mind would prefer the single mic approach today. If that one mic goes south, so does ALL the audio.
With today's radio and tv technology, it is just not easy enough to engineer to the satisfaction of the station, for single mic broadcasting or recording to be the standard practice.
In the era you allude to, engineers used one mic for one reason: that was the ONLY way to do it. If they'd had the choice (and a good mixing board), I doubt they'd have even considered a single mic -- except, perhaps, for specific applications such as a well rehearsed bluegrass band that plays the mic like a volume control. Del McCoury comes to mind -- they've got it down to a science. That's the only context in which I've seen a single mic used in more than 30 years. There are also engineers who swear by two mic, straight stereo recordings of acoustic ensembles, such as symphony or chamber orchestras.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Nov 2004 6:55 pm
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My idea was a contrast between yesterday and how complicated it is today. Back then we never heard of boards, and cound not affoed one. We paid the station for the time, 30 min. on the air
I have handed out recordings of thoses shows and most say I played better then than now. Of course that is when I played on the Hay Ride, about that time. well I was hit by a simi, and fell 12 feet out of a tree, that is my story and I am sticking to it. Have to blame my mistakes on something. Will bring some of those recordings to Holonville with me to hand out to thoses enterested.
ernie |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 21 Nov 2004 12:45 am
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| Our singer has a bluegrass band also, they always play to a single, good quality condenser mic and never fail to sound nothing but fantastic. Big full sound, projects well and you can hear each instrument and vocals crystal clear. a couple of years back we did a Hank Williams tribute show in a club using their sound system, just added another mic for a fiddle player, no amp mics. It was one of the best sounding gigs we've done. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Nov 2004 5:54 am
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I understand, now, Larry! 
Sorry, I do get testy sometimes when someone says "You have to do it this way.", or "You can't do that!" I'm always worried that "Newbies" might (as I once did) take those types of statements quite literally, and miss out on a once-in-a-lifetime recording.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 21 November 2004 at 05:57 AM.] |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 21 Nov 2004 8:22 am
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Earnest,
I just got back from a tour where we did quite a few live radio spots. Its just about the same these days at most stations we played at as the old days you are talking about. A bunch of guys from the band singing and playing guitars (and a dobro) crammed into the DJ booth. There are a few big fancy set ups for some of the national shows but for the most part its pretty basic.
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Bob
intonation help
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 22 Nov 2004 12:00 pm
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We do a lot of live events, indoors and out, large and small, every year, with all sorts of acts. For a strictly acoustic act like abluegrass band, barbershop quartet, etc., it is my experience that the single mic will always sound the best, PROVIDED:
(1) The act has their movements properly coordinated to get the lead singer/solo instruments in front of and closest to the microphone with the remainder of the performers appropriately spaced around it (a constant part of the performance when using this technique), and
(2) The sound system has been properly tuned to allow the necessary sound level to be attained without any feedback between the speakers and the microphone.
The reason I use the potentially controversial word "best" is this: When multiple mics are used, some bleed from each instrument and vocal into the mics intended for other instruments or voices will always occur. This bleed arrives at the distant mic a wee bit later than it gets to the mic directly in front of the instrument or singer and eventually all of the mics feed the mixer at the same time. The various bits of time delay introduce what we sound geeks refer to as "phase distortion" and degrades the original pure sound of each individual instrument or voice.
Whether or not this becomes a noticeable problem has a great deal to do with how many mics are out there, what the instruments are, how far apart the mics are and what the room itself does in regards to additional reflections (additional time delays) adding to the original sounds in each microphone.
Give me a great band and a single mic anyday as long as you also give me time to "ring out" (tune the feedback out of) the stage. The second best is to use as multiple mics well spaced apart and set it once then LEAVE IT ALONE. Non-musical sound guys that keep moving the knobs around can really screw up a good thing!
Thus it is not only a subjectively perceived phenomena but is also a scientifically provable fact. The OTHER fact remains, however, that it won't always workll!
Dave
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Strung Out on Great Sounds
 Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
PDX Audio
Music
1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, 1960 Les Paul (SG) Deluxe, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion
[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 22 November 2004 at 12:06 PM.] [This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 22 November 2004 at 12:08 PM.] |
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