just a few comments

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Well Calvin, at least you tried it!

I sure wish you'd been nearby, I might have been able to help. Even from my point of view, it's not an easy instrument to learn, and I don't think anyone's mastered it yet. It is an easy one to have fun with, though. (I hope you had at least a little fun with it.)

My best to you.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Calvin, it seems to be easy for some folks and near imposible for others. But I think that almost anyone can make progress, if they apply themselves. I'm not a great player, but I've stuck with it for many years. What is surprising, though, when I play with other amateurs, some of them good musicians, most will comment that I play well. I know better, I will never be play like the top pros, but it's brought me a lot of pleasure over the years.

A person's expectations, his perception of himself as a player, can make or break you. For me, I just accept that I will only be average, at best, and try to get as much enjoyment out of it as possible.

I wonder if you have used any of Jeff Newman's instructional material. I think Jeff's true genius was that he figured out the basic knowledge that one needed to begin to play music. In other words, if you have spent all your time trying to learn to play Steel Guitar Rag, or Mansion on the Hill, or some other songs, without learning your guitar, something about music and the part that steel guitar plays in a band, it will be almost impossible to make progress. Sadly, a lot of instructional material just gives you some tab and a recorded track and it's up to you to either learn it or not.

Sometimes someone will say:
"You can either play or you can't."
No one is born with a steel guitar in their hands, some do have more talent, though. Those of us who don't, need to accept our limitations and find a way to develop to our highest potential. It's not easy, but it can be fun. Good luck to you, I hope you will give it another try.

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Bill Moore...
my steel guitar web page

Ron ! · Posted 2 Nov 2004 8:59 am

I have tought some young steelers years back and i never charged anything for that.

Bob Wood · From: Madera, California, USA

Calvin,

You're right! But, just look at the response you've generated. There are a lot of people on this forum here, myself included, that would be willing to sit down with you and show you some stuff. Which is all I ever did got too. Now if you're talking a once-a-week thing, then yes..., most teachers want to get paid for their time. Thats because teaching is all they do for a living, and need to get paid to survive. It looks like you've already made the decision to quit though.., so all I have left to say is: Good luck in all your musical endevors, and I hope you find the instrument of your desires to satisfy your quench for music!

Bob

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I admit I don't have the proper temperament to teach, or even to pass on what I know. I've been persuaded on two occasions on undertake this endeavour, and I've quit both times because I couldn't tolerate the lack of commitment from the 'students' - they seemed to expect that, by parting with a relatively small sum of money, they would become players simply by showing up at the classroom! It would be clear to me that they'd hardly touched their guitar in the intervening week between lessons.

I've always worked hard at improving - the more I learn, the more I realise just how far I have to go; in my case, though, it's never really felt like work.

Calvin: you need an attitude-adjustment if you're going to make headway with ANY instrument. Don't expect all the work to be done for you - a lot of us (me included) starting playing steel long before any learning-materials existed.

RR

Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

Calvin--If you had really wanted to learn and play steel, you would have continued. You could have kept trying instead of giving up. As many forum members have stated there are many ways to obtain information on lesson material--some free and some will cost. I have noticed that there are steel players on this forum that won't give free information. One comes to mind who used to post quite frequently several years back who was willing to talk about scales and chords but now will not help for free. There are also those who post to sell items and lesson material (some of which is quite outdated) who never comment on the forum unless there is a profit to be made, but this is not the norm. This is not a reason to give up the steel--I have even received free CD's from players without having asked for them. There is always someone out there to help you so don't use that for the reason you quit playing. Joe

Fred Jack · From: Bastrop, Texas 78602

A bit off thread but I'd like to share a little humor.At least humorous to me. As some of you know my nine year old granddaughter is learning to play fiddle.Has been about 5 years now.The past year or so the tunes have been getting progressively harder and at times she stomps her foot!Shakes her head and says "this is too hard.I just can't get it!
I quietly reply"ok! if you can't get it lets go back to something a little easier".
"No! I'll get it!"
Whatever you want to do honey.A few days later she is knockin it out.She is not going to have PoP think she can't do it if someone else can.I love it!She thinks she is workin me and I think I'm workin her. Fred

[This message was edited by Fred Jack on 02 November 2004 at 11:29 AM.]

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Everyone learns at a different pace, and has different motivations. In my case, I found that I had to be a musician to be happy. I left my third year of veterinary school to pursue steel, and although I've made a "decent" living as a musician, I have to live much more frugally than if I'd been a veterinarian. (BTW- Do you take your dog in for shots and expect them to be free?) I've had "free" help from many others, and paid for lessons as well. Back in 1977 it took everything I had to afford a week long stay at Jeff Newman's first advanced/teachers school. I would have never dreamed to suggest that his charges were unwarranted, unfair, or "snobbish"- in fact, some of the best money I ever spent. Yes, Jeff made most of his living as a teacher, but do the Pro steel players who make just some of their living from teaching deserve disrespect for that, any more than studio work or live gigs? I gave a lesson just yesterday, for which I charged $50. It lasted more than five hours- the guy left with a new pot and string in his volume pedal, customized instruction, and enough material to stay busy for a long time. I don't feel like I took advantage in any way. I've given hundreds of hours in free instruction, but teaching is one of several avenues for the years I've spent in music to help support my family. Does this make me some kind of snob?
Playing Steel, like any other skill, takes much study and application, commitment, drive, sacrifice, and desire. If you give up, well, you've given up! I expect to be trying to learn steel for the rest of my life. It certainly doesn't seem like a waste of time.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

"If you have to pay someone to help you on steel, then they don't deserve to sit behind one." Now There's a fine attitude to pass on! Well, just look at all the FREE advice and encouragemnt you just got on this post. No Charge. I guess it's down to a respect thing.

Robert Porri · From: Windsor, Connecticut, USA

At most music stores, lessons are about $20 a half hour, some a little less, some a little more. I don't want to just repeat what others have already said. Any good teacher does a combination of free teaching, a little extra time given here and there, some like giving advice on this Forum, some in other ways, but they also deserve to be getting a fair wage for regular lessons. $50 an hour may be top end, but well worth it for an exceptional teacher in my opinion.

Bob P.

Brian Donegan · From: Red Bank, New Jersey, USA

I know this has all been said already,but I have a minute to kill so here goes, in a perfect world we would not have to pay for any kind of artistic lessons,It would be passed from one too another,But people do have to make a living and why should a musician not be paid for his trade.We all know how long it takes to master an instrument.That being said, I am about as new to the steel as you get, and this forum is unbeivable,I find evryone so giving of themselves and there knowledge( I do get corected on my spelling somtimes,but that is a small price to pay,and I am an awful speller, so I probably deserve it) between the tab thats avaiable and the question and answer its awesome,Thanks to everyone, you guys are great. I will never sell my steel(God willing)and I will most likely always SUCK at it.so what....its the journey that I think is important.Brian

Herman Visser · From: Rohnert Park, California, USA

Well here I go.I started on the steel about yr. ago,and I would never expect any of you good players to take time out of your life to teach me FOR FREE no less.WHAT IS HE THINKING!!!.Is it that you know how to play SO!!! you have to teach me for FREE!!!,I dont think so.I kmow that it is ever hard to find a Steel Teachers but you have to put yourself out to learn, go to gigs and just watch, ask question, most players I have found are very willing to show off their stuff.Dave Zirbel, b0b, and Booby Black to name a few.In Sacramento this year meet about 20 Steelers not one said no,they were all willing to show something (Its FREE). But to assume Free is someone who didnt want to learn in the first place.Hope he gave that steel away to someone who realy wanted to play MAYBE DID SOME GOOD.You know being here on the Forum is not Free.Wake up.Would I be willing to pay $50an hr for a good teacher YES,would I be willing to drive 1hr. for one YES. I do think the problem out there is that there are alot of people teaching that shouldnt, my son had one years ago I fired him in fact I fired 4 of them (dunks and loadys)I finlly found one that started him off by reading music at the same time as playing( cost $35 an hr)time 1990s. money well spent.Ian greatfull to all of you on the Forum for the great info.I am getting and the great MUSIC.Am I ever going to be a great player NO, will I quit No I have hoppfuly at least 20yrs to try to be a SOA man must keep his mouth open a long while before a roast pigeon flies into it<..... nothing is Free and to play the Steel Guitar looks like its going to take lots of hard work.Dont give up

Rick Alexander · From: Florida, USA, R.I.P.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

You don't dedicate your whole life to steel because you have some sort of big problem, but because you love the instrument and love music.

Dustin Rigsby · From: Parts Unknown, Ohio

I guess I'm spoiled...all the help I have gotten has been for free. I would gladly pay for steel lessons though. I never would have thought I would all but stop playing my six strings a year ago. That steel stuff sure do get in your blood quick

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D.S. Rigsby
Carter Starter and various six string toys

Henry Nagle · From: Santa Rosa, California

The only reason I got started was my friend Dave Zirbel. He called me up out of the blue and offered to sell me a great guitar at a very reasonable price. He gave me a few lessons and his old pack a seat for nothing. Sold me my steel amp for a song. He's always been willing to get together and talk steels, loan me albums, give free advise. He's a great player with no shortage of people to tell him so and he's always had time for me. Outside of my family, steel guitar is the coolest thing I've gotten involved with since the six string guitar when I was a kid. If I weren't so lucky as to have a friend like Dave I don't think I would have had the guts to make the investment. Thanks Dave!
It's not fair to make a judgement on the steel community as a whole, but I can certainly sympathise with the frustration one might feel if they didn't recieve any help getting started. It's a pretty intimidating instrument.
politicspoliticspolitics! There, I said it. Had to get that off my chest. Totally unrelated. Sorry about that.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

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[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:21 PM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

You could walk and get there, or you could PAY(ooopps! There's that evil dirty word again!) for a bus ticket and get there much quicker, or you could PAY for a plane ticket and get there real quick. You still get there any way you choose or can afford, only if you don't quit. Buying a pro's time will peel years off your endevor to learn steel guitar. Is this too hard to cypher? Winners don't quit and quitters don't win.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

I strongly disagree that a teacher should not be paid.

I charge. If a student can not afford it and is motivated enough, there's always some yard work or whatever that can be bartered.

I also take occasional lessons, from some top players. I travel far, pay my expenses, and for their time. Overall I spend a lot more than I make at this. I'm happy to do it.

I'm not rich, but when there's a will there's a way. If I had to relocate a lot I'd find a teacher in every new area.

I believe a student needs to understand there is value to your time. Otherwise when the going gets tough they'll just quit.

Do you charge for your work?

Robert Porri · From: Windsor, Connecticut, USA

<<...if you have to pay someone to help you on the steel then that person doesn't deserve to sit behind one>>

This was already pointed out, but Calvin, I feel the person who said this to you, although it was probably just an "off the cuff" comment, did you a great disservice and gave you unrealistic expectations.

As a guitar teacher myself, who charges a very fair $20 a half hour, I keep coming back to this thread because something just really bothers me about things you said. After innvesting 10's of thousands of dollars for education and equipment, and 40 years of practice, to think that someone would expect a "free ride" all the time, shows a real misunderstanding of a teacher/student relationship. I've done my share of free offerings teaching and performing through the years. If I had a good student who couldn't afford lessons, I'd offer to teach them for free. You've hung on one thing that somebody said, who probably didn't even mean it the way you took it. As has been pointed out, it was your ultimate decision to give up PSG, but it was unfortunate that you would base that decision in part on a comment somebody made.

Bob P.

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