Do you ever feel like a phony?

Greg Vincent · From: Folsom, CA USA

I shouldn't admit this, but...

I've been hacking away at the PSG for almost 10 years now and I still sometimes get this feeling --at a gig-- that I am impersonating a steel guitarist. It's very odd and I can never predict when it will happen. I'll be feeling totally fine and then, perhaps while I'm setting up my steel, I'll feel like a total fake. I'm not talking about nerves or self-doubt; I'm talking about more of a feeling that I am play-acting or operating undercover in the role of "steeler". I thought it would go away after the first few years of gigging with this thing, but it keeps coming back.

I gigged for years & years on guitar and never got the feeling that I was a phony guitarist --even when I had a bad night. I just felt like a lousy guitarist on those nights --but I did feel like a guitarist.

Same thing with singing. I've sung (poorly)from time to time on gigs and on song demos, but I never feel like an imposter, just a bad singer!

I wonder if this is something others have felt, and if it's something specific to PSG or if others have felt it on other instruments. Is it a result of taking up an instrument in adulthood? I was 30 when I started PSG; I was 9 when I started guitar.

Anyway it's really bugging me. It's one thing to feel like you play lousy; it's very different and very weird to feel like an imposter.

Thanks for listening to me whine.

-GV

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Greg, I don't know the answer to your question, and I've never experienced it as a musician, but I have experienced it in business. There are several well-known books on the subject (none of which have I read), starting with:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312404921/qid=1092694973/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-4872442-9785644?v=glance&s=books

And if you scroll down further on that page, you'll see several more related titles on the same subject.

Hope that helps a bit.

Rich Weiss · From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA

It's possible that you're thinking too much. But I know what you mean. For years I thought I was fooling everyone. But if you're enjoying yourself, that's all that matters.

Not everyone can be the big E.

Peter · Posted 16 Aug 2004 2:52 pm

Maybe it because you are used to stand in front of the stage, making direct contact with the audience.
When sitting behind a pedal steel, it feels like being behind a barrier, so maybe it feels like you're hiding?

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Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I wish I didn't but unfortunately I do relate very strongly. I think I'd be ok just going out and doing what I do and having fun, reaping the praise of people that don't have a semblance of a clue about steel and what it should sound like and what it's capable of. But my very presence on the stand makes a statement that I think I belong there and my hang-up is the fear that someone will think that I think that I'm good. I have to fight the urge to explain myself to others that I'm just a beginner (not really true after some 5 years) and other boring stuff like 'man, my brain is in a fog tonight' or 'my fingers feel like they're in molasses today'---as if anyone wants to hear it. Yeah--this may be a bit different from what you describe, Greg, but I sure can relate.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

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[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 09:24 PM.]

Al Sato · From: Texas Hill Country

What Jim said. You won't sound good to the audience unless you have a bit of attitude, and you owe it to the audience to project that attitude. I don't mean you need to sneer at them or overplay, but when you are up on stage, you have to be THE MAN. All those guys in the audience who might be thinking they could do it as well or better (who knows, it could be true) are just guys in the audience. We've all been there.

Daryl Stogner · From: San Diego, CA * R.I.P.

Boy a person can't be any newer at playing steel than me. I can sing pretty well, play rhythm guitar, some lead and play bass.

I know I'm a beginner and lousy to boot. But I can play chords and little nonsense fills and I do it. And I do it the best I can, and keep trying to add to what I know. But what I do does add something, maybe not much but something that wasn't there before. I'm having fun as well. So my attitude is that nothing else matter.

I'm doing all I can at this point in time. I'm not faking anything, I am actually sitting there listening to each song, thinking about what I can play next and try to mix up what I'm doing. It doesn't always work, but it will one day. Still I'm not faking it, I'm a steel player, just new at it.

5 years from now, I may be better (I'd better be), but as long as I'm sitting there and playing I'm the steel player.

You are too.

Robert Porri · From: Windsor, Connecticut, USA

Greg and others, very good comments on this. I have not had a chance to play PSG with a band yet, I'm thinking I may hold off until I've been playing at least a year, but I appreciate having a "heads up" on this. I've been playing guitar 40 years and never had a problem in band. BUT, when I started using MIDI backup, playing guitar and my wife doing vocals (I do a little singing too), but that's when the strange feelings started to happen. I think it's mostly a musician's MIDI guilt. You know, that you'd rather be playing with real people and I'm thinking a lot that people would rather be hearing a real band. So it's a different situation, but something about the feeling you expressed seems very comparable to me.

I think you had some good advice above. I'll be trying to adapt it to my situation too.

Bob P.

Bob Hickish · From: Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.

Do you ever feel like a phony? ----------

Greg
The Steel can be an intimidating machine , are
you sure you feel like a phony , Or is it the
machine - I think I know what it is you feel - I
took up steel in 48 and got a pedal in 70 - I
played it for 10 years and never once did I feel
adequate playing it - The one thing I discovered
is others hear you a lot differently than you hear
yourself & I don't mean that in a bad way -
Steelers are way to critical of themselves !! This is
what I would like all the folks starting out to kinda
understand ! don't give up because you think
everyone else does it better , that's not the case at
all . I went back to the old way of playing and felt
like I was back home - but sorry I give up pedals

BH

Jack Francis · From: Queen Creek, Arizona, USA

I know a little about this, I'm a guitar player that takes the steel along when the gig requires us to play country.

The truth of the matter is that we think that we're not playing to the level that we should...that others are judging us. The fact is that Buddy,Paul,Doug,Jim,Hal,b0b and others are just not out there listnin'
to us, they have other things to do.

To those out there watching us we are "THE STEEL PLAYER" in this band, period.

I was playing a gig once in the Veteran's Hall in Sebastopol, CA and looked out and saw my old steel player Bobby Lee (Of this Forum), watching this novice sit down to play. I was nervous but he made me feel comfortable. He didn't even point and laugh.

If what we're playing works with each song,
we are.... "THE STEEL PLAYER!"

Smile and enjoy what your doin!

A fellow "STEEL GUITAR PLAYER IMPERSONATOR!"

[This message was edited by Jack Francis on 16 August 2004 at 06:08 PM.]

Greg McMullen · From: Brooklyn, New York

dude,
your playing on the idaho falls stuff doesn't sound phony to me.
-greg

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MSA D-10 8x6
Mesa/Boogie MK I 1-15" combo

Steve Spitz · From: New Orleans, LA, USA

I know exactly how you feel. It takes a while to feel comfortable, like you can consistantly play in control,with touch,tone and confidence. If you waited to get to this point before you started gigging, you`d never start. I told Jeff Newman the story about how I started to play gigs way before I was ready. He said" Thats Great!! Don`t wait till you`re ready, You`re never ready." That helped me relax a bit. I remember once I was on the bandstand sitting behind my steel waiting to start our set at the New Orleans Jazz Fest, a guy in the audience in the front kept yelling " Hey Steelman!...Hey Steelman!!... " I heard him, but I didn`t repond. I didn`t know he was talking to me! After the show I put it all together,in retrospect. I was the steelman. If you are on the bandstand, YOU are the steelman. Everybody starts somewhere. The top players were hacks at the beginning. Hope that helps.

Brandin · From: Newport Beach CA. USA

Is Greg Vincent your real name??

GB

Bill Llewellyn · From: San Jose, CA

Absolute phoney. I sometimes feel that way on piano/keys, my main axes. After a measley 5 years as a bedroom PSG player? An absolute phoney. But I have had much fun, and met some great people through the PSG.

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Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

It's a musician thing---never satisfied with their performance. A musician IS his own worst critic and enemy. You can talk your self into a bad frame of mind if you are always critical of your self. Just blow it off and have fun, be proud of your abilities and accomplishements, and cut yourself a little slack. Everyone has down nites as well as great nites. The audience seldom knows, and most band members, either. I'm a newbie---been at steel 18 months now, and don't know Sh&t, but when I get compliments from the band and the audience, I know I was right enough. If someone takes exception, they can feel free to go home and drag their junk out, set it up, and I'll listen to them on their own time, and they can correct me if they feel I was that bad. I doubt that will happen, because anyone that critical probably never tried steel anyways, or had the sand to stick with it.
Not many pickers have the big brass cahonees to tackle steel, and I'm danged proud TO tackle steel---even if I never get beyond mediocracy. But I won't quit until I get good----it's a musician thing, you know------------------------------

Mike Cass · Posted 16 Aug 2004 7:59 pm

the bigger the shoes are that you're trying to fill, the more you'll notice the discrepancy

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

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[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 09:24 PM.]

Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Funny, I was going to say the same thing Jim Cohen said - it has happenned to me routinely over the course of my professional career. I didn't know there were books about it.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

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[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 09:24 PM.]

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

At a certain age I realized that the whole world runs on bull$h!+ - from the president to the pope to Michael Jackson on down to just about anything you read in the paper,see on TV or hear on the radio.I came to understand that I should relax cause my brand of bull$h!+ was at least as good as most and that I should throw it out there like everybody else and see if anybody's buyin it. The important thing is that you get up there and ACT like you play good.That attitude,a few beers and 35 years of hackin at the strings with impunity and I feel like I can sorta play and be sorta happy with what's comin out of my amp most of the time.I've played some terrible crap in my time but people always say I play in tune - so maybe I've accomplished at least that much. -MJ-

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Play violin for 15 years, and they say
Well NOW your ready to learn how to play.

I imagine the PSG is about the same.

Which doesn't mean you are not playing good music NOW,
just that the level of finese of a fine player is not consistantly there.

So do you say :

hey I can't play like Big E, I am an imposter.

I don't have Jerry Byrd's touch I am an imposter

I don't do fiddle tunes like Doug Jernigan, I am an imposter.

or
Do you say ; I play like me.

I am continually making progress learning, I have not plateaued.

I am working and getting positive feedback.
Which means people whatever their steel music education are enjoying it.

There will always be a guitarist who does something other guitarists can't do.
Julian Breem never did John McGlaughlins licks, and vica versa.
But was either of them an imposter guitarist.. ? NO.

There will always be a steeler with different learning history, physical coordination,
and a different harmonic ear.

Which doesn't diminish you.

If you are only copying them and not playing like yourself, then maybe you could think :
I am an imposter. But your shouldn't.

Another view would be journeyman, cover artist. Many a musician has supported a family and made a decent career doing reasonably faithfull reproductions of classics night after night.
Some people are just not original composers, others are.

But if you have copied many players licks and learned tons of other peoples songs,
but play them LIKE YOURSELF,
then who are you being a false copy of?

All our idols have done exactly the same thing, learned the licks where they could find them,
and made them their own.
And often added a few connections that hadn't been done before.

But just because you're not wholely original in approach doesn't make you a fake.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 16 August 2004 at 11:26 PM.]

Marc Friedland · From: Fort Collins, CO

Greg, I've been playing the pedal steel for the same amount of time as you, about ten years. About 25 years before that was when I started playing 6-string guitar and keyboards. I believe I understand the perspective of feeling like a phony and why someone might think that way, but I personally never have. If I'm hired for a gig or a recording, I know I'm a musician, doing my absolute best at that time. To me, the fact that there have been times when I've played better, or the fact that there are many steel players out there with more skills and more choices of what to play than me, does not make me feel like a phony. I consider myself a "true" musician and within my perhaps limited range of skills and choices, I'm always able to express myself musically. If the person hiring me feels like I'm a phony, I'll respect their opinion and express my apologies for not being able to fullfill their musical needs. Most bands that I have worked with whether gigging or in a recording capacity, call me back for more, gig after gig, year after year.
So I guess the bottom line and answer to the original question is -- No, I don't feel like a phony, even if others might feel I am.
-- Marc

Mark Metdker · From: North Central Texas, USA

I think a lot of us have struggled with this in some way or another. I consider myself a guitarist that knows how to play a little steel, so that means I have a LOT to learn.

My mindset has become this: To try me best to make each song sound as good as possible. Sometimes that means playing a lot, more times it means playing less. Also, I very seldom copy other players licks. Even on cover tunes, I will play it my way. i do this for 2 reasons. The first, I like to try and give each song my own sound, and second, I am not good enough to copy guys like Bruce Bouton, and Buddy.

Now, what are the odds that another steel player will be at each one of your gigs, critiquing your playing? I don't think you will have to worry about this, unless you are playing the Opry. Nobody else in the building will know your level of expertise. Just play your best, and most importantly, just try to make the song sound as good as you can. After all, that's the reason you are there!

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BMI S-10
Peavey Session 500

"Do Right, and Fear No Man"
Ronald Reagan

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I think James Morehead hit it right - good musicians are never satisfied, and it seems like the better they are, the less satisfied they are. The kind of determination needed to be the best is oppositional to serene acceptance of how things are as they stand. I read an interview several years back with John McLaughlin where he said that on a good day, he still practices 7 or 8 hours, and on a bad day he can only play 3 or 4.

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