Pro Vs Student Model

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

this may sound dumb, but other than more pedals what is the advantage of moving up to a pro model?? i am having a hard time understanding the huge differance in price, adding a couple of pedals can't cost that much .

thanks

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Student models have simpler changers that are very limited in what they can do. They usually have a fixed copedent that cannot be changed.

Student models are made of cheaper materials. They are typically harder to tune and to keep in tune. The pedal action, amount of travel in the pedals, etc. cannot be adjusted to "fit" your body. They usually have excessive "cabinet drop", which causes strings that are not pulled to detune when the pedals are pressed.

Student models can be played effectively, but they are generally harder to play in tune because of the things I listed above.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Some student models are a lot worse than others.

Brendan Mitchell · From: Melbourne Australia

Some student models are quite acceptable : Emmons the old Sho-Bud Maverick and , I'm told
the ZB was very good.Of course non of these are still in production so would have to be found second hand.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Kinda like the Fram Oil Filter..

you can pay for it now..or pay for it later..

Student model Guitars are very limited in what they can do..can you learn on them and play a lot of music ? Yes of course. But the question is, should you..

Considering a vast majority of all written/tabbed Steel courses are written for a 3+3 or a 3+4 Steel arrangement, a 3+1 will have you scratchin' your head. The single knee lever is generally used to lower the 2nd string a half step.

Perhpas the Carter Starter would be more in line with it's 3+ 4 fixed configuration to get started on.

The biggest issue you will face with one of the early manufactured 3+1 student steels is that they cannot be upgraded, or at least not easily.It's not a question of whether they are made well or not. Thats not the issue. The changers were not designed to be modified and have extra pedals and knees added .

If you are listening to "Todays" tunes with very fine Steel phrases, odds are you will not find them easily on the 3+1 configuration if at all. Considering that raising and lowering the E's ( 2 knee levers) along with 3 Floor Pedals is now considered the absolute minimum for any Steel , keep in mind that the 3+1 student guitars don't lower or Raise any E's at all.

If you are serious, purchase a nice used S10 with at least 3+4 or a new Carter Starter.A nice Pro S10 with a 3+4 configuration will always be considered a marketable Instrument so even if you decide to "Change" steels down the line it will be a fairly easy Instrument to re-sell. Compared to 3+1 Student Steels..when you buy them..you may own them for life..

And as mentioned above, Pro Steels, pretty much all of them, can be modified and have changes added to them with minimum difficulty.

good luck

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 10 August 2004 at 02:09 AM.]

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 10 August 2004 at 02:12 AM.]

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 10 August 2004 at 02:17 AM.]

Jim Hankins · From: Yuba City, California, USA

except, you can find or set up a guitar(such as my sho bud 3+1) which will lower the 2nd string AND lower 1 E string with the one knee lever. That helps alot, Jim

Robert Porri · From: Windsor, Connecticut, USA

I was deciding what to do about this less than a year ago. I talked to Gene Fields of GFI about it. He had me pretty convinced that the GFI student models in a lot of ways could be used as a pro model and would be a good choice. I decided on a pro model GFI and have what I believe is a better pickup, an extra knee lever, and I'm sure a more all around solid guitar with more and easier upgrades when I'm ready. I think though, that the GFI student model would have been a fine PSG. I play a Carter Starter in my lessons and it is also a good guitar and a little less expensive. The GFI student model however is a solid consideration and probably has some advantages I don't yet understand.

Bob P.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I have always wondered why beginning players buy "student" models. I imagine most sales are to people who buy on a whim, or those who just don't do nore research before they buy. Many players pay from $700 to $1800 for a "student" or beginner's model when there are plenty of used pro models available for the same money. of course, there is some cachet that comes with a "new" anything, but I always advise potential players to get a good used pro model under the guidance of an experienced player.

That way, you won't be out looking again within a year or two for something better.

John Fabian · From: Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.

Donny wrote:
[quote]I have always wondered why beginning players buy "student" models.....

....Many players pay from $700 to $1800 for a "student" or beginner's model when there are plenty of used pro models available for the same money.[quote]

The answer is simple. AVAILABILITY

1. Not counting GFI or Zum, you would need more than 500 used steels a year just to keep up with Carter-Starters.

2. Finding used steels is not that easy if you've never played. Carter-Starters are available at more than 150 individual dealers worldwide (some of which have multiple locations). They have the instrument in their stores (also available by special order from Guitar Center). These dealers take other gear in trade for instruments meaning not every steel is purchased by cash or credit alone.

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John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars

www.steelguitar.com
www.steelguitarinfo.com
www.carterstarter.com

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

You have to be pretty knowledgeable, or lucky, to find a playable used Steel near the price range of a new "beginner steel".

It can be done, but you could also end up with an unplayable instrument that needs so much work it's no bargain.

Theresa Galbraith · From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA

Calvin,
Not a dumb ?
Moving up to a pro model is more expensive because you have many more options.
If you can afford it, I'd go for a pro model you'll be happy you did!
Only you know how serious you are about playing. Best of luck!

Theresa

Ed Naylor · From: portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.

I will get trashed but here goes-----I have been in this business 40 years.ANY Steel has to be played with a BAR-They all have FRETS- They all have PEDALS. It is like learning to drive a car.Learn where the clutch,brake and steering wheel are located. Forget the Sun roof and Cell plone. 90% of beginners will want changes in 6 months.While learning basics start saving money and plan on your next guitar. Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Well it WON'T be me that trashes you Ed. I agree 1000%. Money is relative in every single facet of life. How many times, and I mean truly, how many times in life have all of us purchased something and later murmured to ourselves,

"Why did I not wait and get a better one? And to think all it would have taken is to quit a few frivolous spening splurges and I could have had it, instead of frustrating with this thing?"

If that has not happened to you, I imagine it has happened to many. But whether it has or not. I agree with Donny and Ed. The only place I disagree with Donny is I would opt' to go for broke and get a brand new one.

The late actor James Mason was once asked, why he was soooo very successful financially, even though he was not the creme d' lecreme amongst the movie stars. He replied, "I always reached for things that were higher than my means. Interestingly it worked!"

Cheap is cheap under any mask or cloak. The PSG is indeed one of the world's most difficult instruments to learn to play. The last thing a new student needs is unecessary frustrations to add to the built-in frustrations.

So now Ed we got two of em' that will likely be trashed. But in the end our trashing will in no way equal the trash piles of "gotten rid of" student models of anything.

To any aspiring PSG player, GO FOR BROKE! Save your money, BUY a Carter professional model. Or any one of the other professional make steels. You can do it! Been there done that! Cut out cigarettes or booz or both (you need to anyway), cut out frivolous and unecessary splurge spending. You can do it!

If you do, and you CAN (I promise), and one day you happen to sit down to a "student" model, you will be the FIRST to say, "NO way would I ever have been happy with this!"

Flame on, if'n it makes ya happy. Ya won't be the firstun and ya won't be the lastun.

The ONLY Way

Tommy Minniear · From: Logansport, Indiana

Carter solved this problem a few years back: Carter Starter.

You can resale it right here on the Forum or eBay, should you decide to upgrade.

There are so many variables in a used Pro model, not to mention modifications that may have been made over the years by a previous owner.

GFI makes a Starter guitar, which I'm sure is a good one. Zum steels builds a starter also.

Starting out on pedal steel is complicated enough without buying something thats been hacked up or wore out.

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Tommy Minniear
www.ntsga.com

Ed Naylor · From: portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.

There is more to the story.99@ of wannabees unless they play Banjo don't know how to put on picks.They hold the Bar at a Slant.I tell them"This will get you started,so start planning for the future"I also state this "Beginner" can serve as a Backup or tune it to C6 when you up grade and really get serious. Many have taken my advice and now play high dollar guitars with 27 knee levers and 14 pedals.ED

Leonard G. Robertson · From: Ozark, Mo. USA

Bruce doesn't know me, so this is not a personal comment. I did own and play(learning still)a Zum "Stage One" student model 3&4. I highly recommend this guitar to anyone if money is scarce. The copedent is welded and the tone is excellent for the price tag.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

As a new player, I can speak to this firsthand. My first guitar(6 mths ago) was a D10 ZB custom, I got it very cheap. It has one neck I never use,and pedals that need to be adjusted constantly, because of wear and tear. I got tired of spending 1 hour to fix, 1 hour to practice, so I got a great deal on a 6mth old GFI ultra. If you get used, get a newer guitar! Someday I'll fix or sell the ZB, but right now I'm practicing, not repairing! JimP

Leonard G. Robertson · From: Ozark, Mo. USA

I highly recommend the Zum student model "Stage One" if money is a problem. I bought a used one (played every week on the Oldfield Opry for over 2 yrs.) and continued to play it in jam sessions for another 2 yrs. It was S10 with 3&4 with a welded (permanent) copedent and had no raised neck. It had a good tone and stayed in tune very well.

Jeremy Steele · From: Princeton, NJ USA

If you can find an old Emmons push-pull student model I would advise you to grab it...I'm pretty sure it has the same changer (Bolt-on?), pedals and undercarriage as the pro models (Emmons Gurus please correct me if I'm wrong)..I have one to which I have added 3 knee levers, and I love the way it plays and sounds.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

thanks for all the help folks . i have had a carter starter for just over a year now and have decided to move up to a pro model if i can sell the carter. its just hard to understand why the huge price differance

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Calvin,

I am confident you will understand why the first time you play your impending new professional PSG.

Takes mucho things to make better things.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Well, I suppose John has a point about the availability of the "Carter Starter"! Also, to his credit, that's probably the lowest-priced and most widely available student model. Still, there are other companies that offer much higher-priced "student models", and I'm surprised they sell enough of them to make them worthwhile.
Making an "entry model" has to put some companies between the proverbial rock and hard place. On one hand, you have to cut many corners to try and make it inexpensively, so you can keep it inexpensive for the player. On the other hand, if it's not reasonably good-sounding, reliable, sturdy, and attractive, you'll lose the customer to another brand when he/she decides to upgrade. I'm sure it's a very challenging business.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Calvin, once you are sitting behind a quality built PRO Steel your anxiety of why a PRO model costs more will be answered. It will be very obvious.

good luck on your journey..
t

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