Fired!

Quesney Gibbs · From: Anniston, AL

A couple of weeks ago I was fired from a band because I would not change plans I had and do a freebee.

This was one of those bands in which the worst person in the band was the band leader and owned everything on the stage except for my rig and his wife told everyone what to do even though she was not a musician herself.

She found another steel player who was willing to do the free job and so she fired me.

This is what I get for playing for a bunch of unprofessional hacks.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

Hey guy, you are better off. I have been down that road and all it gets you is grief. Just remember what goes around comes around.

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1985 Emmons push-pull,S-10 Marlen,Evans SE200,Hilton pedal

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

I normally do a few benefits each year as well as a free showcase ot two. It's all part of the promotion side of things. If the band keeps a player working regularly and asks for the occasional freebie, it's part of the job, IMHO. On the other hand, you called them unprofessional hacks, so it sounds to me like you hated them to start with, for whatever reasons (music, personalities, etc.), so you're way better off.

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 10 July 2004 at 05:38 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Jeff, Howard, WHAT'S THE DEAL??? TWO dudes from New York, and you both make sense???

Yoko Ono, man.

Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

i run the show when i'm playing ..and i was in the exact same position you were in and i fired the lead guitar player's wife ..and she said i couldn't do that...so i handed her my telecaster and told her to show me how to play it...of coarse she couldn't so when she got mad some more at this point... then i told her to take her husband with her and don't let the door hit her in the a$$ on the way out...she then said that i never would be able to replace the lead player...got on my cell and before they got packed up the new player came through the door...the moral of this story is your better off out of that situation... and in the future...if you run into the wife / husband who is determend to beek off and is not a member of that band...tell the person who spouce it is to put on muzzel and a leash and punt her/his but out the door and wait in the truck untill the pratice or gig is over
thanks
wayne

Dean Dobbins · From: Rome, Ilinois, U.S.A. * R.I.P.

Wait in the truck, but DON'T play the radio!

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Dino

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Quesney, you have my respect for not playing the job. The choice should yours whether to play a "freebee" or not and they should respect that. We all have to make this decision from time to time. The leader gets all the glory on a "freebee", the musicians do 90% of the work, I feel if the leader wants to do the job, he should pay his help out of his pocket, If I don't make any money in the store here on a given day, I don't dock the employees because I didn't make anything. Why don't these band leading idiots have a little more business sense.
Quis, I'm with you!
bobbe

Gary Watkins · From: Bristol, VA

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Consider yourself liberated. Run screaming from that band.

Brad Sarno

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

Bobbe, I understand the point you are making, but you know, it's not like bands make a lot of money, and it would bankrupt the leader to pay all the guys a cut on a freebie. For example, suppose you have a 5-man band and a typical gig pays $500. That's a hundred a man, the leader included. Now if you play a freebie, and the leader has to pay the players, then the leader is out $400. It'll take four gigs at a $100 a man to make that money back. Yes, of course there are situations where the leader may do better than the other band members, if it's a high profile gig for example, and some decent bucks are being paid. But there are VERY few of those. 95% or more are just regular bar/dance gigs and the pay is poor. So we give the leader a break on the freebie. And anyway, if the freebie results in more work, everyone benefits, so why can't everyone bite the bullet in the interest of the band trying to get more work? Well, all situations are different, but this is how I see it for myself. Your bud, Jeff

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

Daryl Stogner · From: San Diego, CA * R.I.P.

Wait in the truck, but DON'T play the radio!

Hmmmm? Sounds like a quote from Unknown Hinson?

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

There were occasions where I have done freebies for promotion.My bands were always payed either fully or for expenses.These promotions gave us the highest amount of exposure resulting in quality gigs. I don't see any wrong in a picker not wanting to do a freebie. It is his or her right having chosen a profession to make a living at.Outside voices should have no say in the operation of the band. It is a band leaders responsibility to keep everyone "working" It is the pickers responsibility to hold on to his job by doing it.

The keyword is job vs Hobby. One you get paid for the other you don't.OAJMHFO

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[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 10 July 2004 at 09:08 AM.]

Jerry Van Hoose · From: Wears Valley, Tennessee

Yes, Dave, I agree. Sounds like Quesney already had made prior plans. The leader of the band should have at least offered gas money/expenses. Good for you, Quesney. Been there & done that.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

He had prior plans and suddenly this freebie pops up.
It's hius call to say yes or no with little or no advance notice.
Yes you are better off movin on.

Where I am most "good players" are freelance and often play in several bands,
if it is in the booking book 1st it is good, or you provide a sub your self.

I have a regular gig, but If I have a booking well ahead for a date I always tell them early well ahead also.

If the book is filled for the date at that time and a gig suddenly appears, especially a freebie, it is on the band to find a sub. Of course the player can help with that.

Any band that would fire a regular for not dropping another engagement for a last minute freebie, is not worth continuing with.

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

Let's say you're flipping burgers at McDonald's all week for minimum wage. Your boss decides that on your day off this week you're going to go flip burgers at his pool party, but for free. How many of you would go? I fail to see the difference.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Working for free is probably the worst thing a person or band can do. It undermines your self respect.

Period.

EJL

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

I don't think there is a black and white on this issue of performing for free. There are those times, when I think it is just the right thing to do to play for free. As an example, not long ago, a widow with 3 small children had just lost her husband in a construction accident. He had no insurance. She didn't have money to even buy the kids shoes for school. I was asked to be a part of a "pick-up" band to help raise a little cash. Not only did I play for free, I bought my own barbeque lunch and paid $20.00 for a $5.00 meal and told them to keep the change. The event raised $8,000.00 for the woman and her kids. I don't believe in taking a freebie if it can anyway cut into a professional's chance to earn a living. I don't believe in doing a freebie if others are being paid. I don't believe in being a taker and never a giver. Occasionally, there will be situations where we play for free just because it's the right thing to do.

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

Well I just want to clarify my previous post. I'm definitely not against performing for free for good causes. I've done it many, many times and will continue to do it. But I DO have a problem with someone getting fired for not doing it. Surely it's a personal choice. Your boss, no matter what you do for a living, only owns the time he's paying you for, he doesn't own you.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Benefits ARE Different. I don't think QG was talking about one of those. Even if he was, "charity" cannot be forced.

I myself wouldn't walk across the street to urinate on the United Way's hair if it was on fire.. ( can I say that?..)

I've played dozens of great Shriners, MDA and local musicians' benefits. The latter only if they are dead or dying.

One local musician died a horrible death due to Pancreatic Cancer. I donated a C note so that if he did get better that he wouldn't bad mouth me anymore. (It was a bet I didn't need to hedge, sadly. I did kind of like him..)

As much money as I've already made off of the "local scene" I don't expect or want one. My wife would only use the money to find another boyfriend anyhow..

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 10 July 2004 at 12:22 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Donny Hinson, Yep! Eric West, Double yep,
Jeff Lampert, your key phrase was, "every situation is different, triple yep, but----------- to have a steady professional money making job, and a person, regardless of who, says, work free or your pro job is gone? Regardless of the situation? This reminds me of several bands and sessions I have worked in Nashville when I first got here. A "Band leader" would say, "hey, I have a free job we have to work to get more work and so I can get my name around". The musicians work it as a favor to him and we find out a month later that HE GOT PAID FOR THE JOB!!! Or a Band leader, new star(in his mind)hires you, tells you he'll come by your house the next day and pay you and you never see him again, OR, the old , "the check is in the mail. Freebees??? Eric West, you win again! You are never wrong.
But, yes Jeff, I've done it for the "right reason", and may again, if it will really help a friend.
bobbe

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

About 10 years ago we had a super rehearsed 5 pc group, to the point we knew almost measure by measure what everybody was doing or going to do. We knew each set list so there was no head scratching between tunes. Even the talkover was planned when the fiddler had to switch to sax or back.

Oddly enough it was not boring, but quite fun to be that tight.

We did a freebe audition at a club that was booked up for months and had said that they had no place for us ahead of time. Never the less we did it out of fun and quite frankly, to show off a little.

While we never got a gig, the owner felt so guilty, he paid us $70 apiece for our two hour audition. He said no band that good should go unpaid for the effort.

That certainly was a first and last in my years of music and the band members are now scattered from California to Oklahoma to Texas. This is not meant to toot my own horn, I was just a part of something bigger than all of us, but it was a large time that happens only once in a lifetime.

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

I think Donny's quote pretty well says it all... but to add a couple of comments.
I've worked lots of charity gigs... everything from "his house burned down" to "It's for the children, don't you care about the children?"
I can tell you that, in my humble opinion, you'll never get treated with less respect than on a charity gig. After all, everyone's in for the "good cause", so, you're just one of the hamsters. Expect to be treated like one, after all, you asked for it.

The reason places like the "Heart & Stroke foundation" , or any of the gazillion "don't you care about the children" daily fundraisers happen is to raise money. Why do they need to raise money ? To pay the staff at Said Charity..... Because they're not stupid enough to work for nothing... unlike some musicians I know.
This is a bit of a sore point for me, 'cause why should musicians constantly be expected to work for nothing, in order to pay wages to people who may have never given a moment of their time to anything ??
And, don't bother to lecture me about their "good work". I've been in the Heart & Stroke Foundation offices in Toronto, just long enough to see the mahogany desks and double hung drapes these people seem to think are bare necessities. It makes me want to barf.
I've sat up 'till midnight in my office counting nickels for some charity, whose employees wouldn't be caught dead working at midnight for love or money. And why would they, other than sheer stupidity ?

Another point that raises it's ugly head on this forum from time to time is: "Why do we need a musicians' union?" The most obvious answer would be: In order to protect these brainless slobs from themselves, their own worst enemy.
If you want to treat yourself like Free Help, unworthy of being paid for your craft, go right ahead. Just know you're stabbing every working musician in the back, for your "exposure".
To address Quesney's original question, if a band is a "all for one, one for all" organization, and they mutually agree to give away their time for nothing, then that's their choice. But, any of you guys that are working for American Idol egomaniac singers that expect they can run the band roughshod through the machine until they make it for free, they can kiss my Royal Canadian Butt. That's my opinion on that situation.
Maybe people only respect musicians as much as they respect themselves. Think on that.
I do 2 charity gigs a year. That's my limit, and that's how I explain it to the masses when they call. One exemption to that rule would be my monthly gigs at the local old age home. If you want to work for nothing for charity, and see a real difference in people's quality of life because of your choices, that's the place to play, imho.
Without exception, every other charity gig I've ever played has illuminated someone's finger in the till, when the smoke cleared.

I also make the point from time to time that, although I don't depend on music to pay my rent, I have to be respectful of those with whom I work who do.

Yours grumpily,
-John

[This message was edited by John Steele on 10 July 2004 at 11:19 PM.]

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