Achieving consistency

Keith Murrow · From: Wichita, KS

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[This message was edited by Keith Murrow on 26 October 2004 at 03:17 PM.]

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

From my experience, licks have a tendency to be square pegs and "being in the moment" of playing live, is the round holes. Plus, because I'm playing the "exotic" instrument, that most people haven't seen or don't see on a regular basis, I get a lot of "eyeball", which makes me self-conscious.

The thing about licks, is they typically aren't yours, they're somebody elses and you've memorized them, but ultimately, it's what somebody else would have played there. And therein is the problem, you're trying to play what somebody else might play, rather than what is comfortable for you in that spot.

For years, I played in a traditional western swing band, The Radio Ranch Straight Shooters, that did a lot of Spade Cooley covers and thus I had to learn Joaquin Murphey's solos. No matter how many times I practiced them and played them, I could never sound like him, to my ears, for obvious reasons.

We all want to sound great and impress the players and the audience with our skills and abilities. More often than not it's ok to sound good.

What I did that worked for me was, since I'm a better composer than soloist, for every song that had a steel solo that was in the set list, I worked out a solo that I would play pretty much the same way, every time that song came up. My rationale was that the audience didn't care that I had exploited every combination of shape and form related to the melody. They wanted to hear some music and if I played something musical and appropriate that fit that song in that spot, then it had to be right. Then when I got tired of it, I would come up with something else. The important thing here is, because I knew what I was going to play, I could concentrate on how I was going to play it, rather than groping for notes and licks.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

An often overlooked part of performance is breathing. Pay attention to your breathing patterns, it is amazing how many musicians hld their breath while playing! It is all about relaxing. JimP

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Wow, great words written here, great thoughts, What happend? I like this mode of thinking.
bobbe

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

I think breathing is really important too.

I found my consistancy level went up a notch when I started concentrating more on bar movement and learning the open tunings more. When I say open tunings, I also mean pedal & KL combinations that are used to make chords and harmonic "pockets"...kinda like the way pedals were first meant to be used before "Slowly" and the pedal/voice movement side of our complicated axe came to be.

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Consistency may be over rated, consistancy in doing a great ride, passage, turnaround,etc., as far as quality playing is involved is one thing, but consistency in playing the exact thing every time is something else. I'd never want to ever play the "same thing" consistently, regardless of how well I could play it, I'd much rather play very well and play inventively different every time. This trait is why I seem to fit better as a recording type of player that a road player that had to make the "Star" happy by playing identical licks at every show.
NOW, Being consistently perfect at every playing performance is the problem, regardless of what you are playing.
This is something that I don't feel any of us can do. Many things affect ones playing abilities, no one can be perfectly consistent all the time, am I wrong?
When I hear Buddy E., Doug Jernigan, Tommy White etc., they seem like they are "always on", but I've heard them say after what I thought was a great playing show, "Man, I'm just not on it tonight". I couldn't tell, they are always incredible to me.
Do I have "off nights"? Only when I play. Stage fright? Naw, something I ate, or a mood, who knows.
bobbe,

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

A well known steel player and i here in Ft.Worth,Tx.discussed this some time back.He like me had his bad nights and always tring to get the picks shaped to feel right and missing simple licks.We had both come to realize it was because the rhythm section wa so far out of sync.In other words,the drummer was doing his own thing ,dropping the aft beat to put beats that didn't fit the song,the bass player off in left field and not knowing every thing isn't written in 4/4.If you play alone or with records and have no trouble this could very well be the problem.I don't mean any disrespect to any one but 99% of the local bands i have tried to work with local and /or listen to are mostly a free for all.The rhythm section isn't together,the rhythm or lead guitar is out of tune and guess who gets blamed for being out of tune.Please notice that when the guitar player notices he is out of tune the first thing he does is run the litle E string sharp and then tunes the rest with it and leaves the steel,fiddle or others sounding flat.Hope this helps you some.Tracy

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I think a lot of players have these issues from time to time - that self-confidence that makes you feel like you can do no wrong can desert you in a flash, and you're suddenly feeling vulnerable.

Whenever I possibly can, I'll play something that's mine - sure, there's a subliminal link to something you've heard from someone else, but ALL musicians learn from their predecessors - the important thing is not to be mimicking every nuance of someone's lick or solo. That's a 'no win' situation, because the original player has the advantage of being its creator.

I mostly play theatre shows, and there is always a score to follow. But, thankfully, it's always open to interpretation, and the great joy of playing music is the freedom to interpret a song as the spirit moves you.

Take heart, and don't be intimidated by the acknowledged 'greats' - just be inspired by them!

Rest assured - NO-ONE can play quite like you can.....

Roger Rettig

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

A 'PS'...

I was priviledged to attend a seminar in London some forty years ago - our 'professor' was none other than the great Barney Kessel.

He said that the most important advice he could give us was to regulate our breathing - how often that pearl of wisdom has come to my rescue in a stressful situation.

RR

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

My take on this is that you may have to accept the fact that playing the same licks perfectly over and over just isn't your bag. There are amazing players in all instruments who NEVER play the same thing twice. You sound like you are still looking for what you are as a player, and elapsed time has nothing to do with it. Some players know who they are within a few years, others never find out. You are at the point where it is time to stop worrying about why you can or can't cover certain licks consistently, and instead start developing your own approach to playing. It's hard to describe this - it's a matter of knowing your style, your physical drive, your subtlety, your creativity, etc. It's no longer licks and fills. You have to get past it. It doesn't matter if you can't play the same lick perfectly each time. You don't have to. BUT, you have to find your identity, and then everything else will fall into place. Easier said than done I know very well, but that's what I think your issue is. You might try playing some rock n'roll, some blues, etc. Also, move around the fretboard more, don't get locked into playing at the same fret. Dig stuff out that you have never heard played before and start making yourself into something unique. Ok?!!

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Bill Sampler · Posted 24 Apr 2004 8:33 pm

I'm a newbie player and this thread has some great information in it. I have had several lessons from Reece, but I find myself at a phase that I know enough to make it through a simple song playing chords and very simple fills, but not enough to be creative and find new stuff to play and it is frustrating.

So I too find myself playing the same simple fills over and over not knowing where to go to find something new. The responses from Jeff and Roger I found to be very profound for me and I'm thankful for their insight.

Maybe more time in the saddle will help.

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Bill Sampler
Carter S-10/DB 4x5
Nashville 1000
Yamaha SPX-90
Lexicon MPX-100
TC Electronic M300

[This message was edited by Bill Sampler on 24 April 2004 at 09:34 PM.]

Winnie Winston · From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ * R.I.P.

what a great topic!
What I said in my book still holds true. The ultimate is to have *IT* play-- when you just take a mental leave during the break, and let what comes out just come.
To get into that head space is not all that easy, and the slightest thing (like breaking a string) can bring you out pretty quickly.
I've been having it happen on banjo for years. Brak comes up, I weave to the mic, play, back off, singer starts and I come back to my body with no memory of what I just played, but it sure felt good!
The first time it happened to me on steel, it was a real thrill. Now, I aim for it, but it is often elusive. Sometimes it is just a good backup that does it.
Gad, it happened once at Scottys. I got up to do my set, and there were three fiddles sitting there-- Wade Ray, Dale Potter, and Tommy Williams. At that moment I decided I HAD to do "Maiden's Prayer", and even though I never really worked up an "arrangement" or even played it out, I just felt that the opprtunity was too good to miss. So I did it-- twice through, and then let the three fiddles go as I say there and had a mildly sexual experience. Then I wrapped it up. I have no memory of what I played at all-- but it sure felt great!
Tight arrangements and licks are all very interesting but the real consistency comes from knowing the stuff well and not being afraid to go for it. If you say, "I gotta play it right" you'll screw up every time. But if you say, "I gotta play it," and just go for it, that's the fun of it.
Long ago when I was learning (and I still am) my lady said, that some nights I played at a grade B, and other at a grade D. Never went down to an F level. Then, years later she heard me again and said, that at my highest I'm up at an A-, and my lowest (even when I'm asleep, is at a C+.
What you want to do is get into the grrove so your always playing acceptably, but the highs get to be very good.
Reminded of a story Jethro Burns told me. He dropped into a lounge in LasVegas where Chalker was playing. He said Chalker was dreadful. At the break, he went up to say hello. Chalker was most upset that Jethro was there and apologized for the set, and said he wasn't very inspired as was "just on automatic." He asked Jethro to stay for the next set, where he played brilliantly.
So HOW you play depends on a lot of factors. One of the best shows I ever played was for an audience of about 10 people-- but I was in a good groove with the singer and it all felt great.
Gad! I could go on forever about it.
Get into the groove and let IT play.

JW

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I think also it can be a case of over reaching.

You want to play ALL your best licks and be different on every song.
Even after 50 years of playing you still hear repeat licks in a set from the best players..

We on the outside call this their style.
On the inside they are most likely saying,
gee why couldn't I get that new thing I did in practice on that 3rd chorus.

Relax, play what is confortable for you, and what you know.
Kind of zen out a bit, and relax as Winnie said.

I have a great gig coming up, and I told the leader, no I WON"T be copying your regular steelers licks verbatim, nor Paul Franklin's licks from 3 cuts he played for her.
Yeah she is that good.

I will play like me in the general form of the steel parts on the cuts of the CD.
She said that's fine.

3 things in this;
1) I only want to copy a lick because I want the lick
2) I can't cop PF's licks like him anyway... no one can
3) I want to sound like me and play what I can play well.
Not sound like other guys.
Plus my copedent has been set to get my musical logic for how I see and hear music,
not absolutely the standard, but getting the right things for me.

Sure I will hit a few clams, this is a given, but I will hit fewer
if I just play to the songs like me,
and not pretend to be another player.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 25 April 2004 at 04:40 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Winnie, good post. It's almost a Zen thing---you try to hard for it, and it gets farther away. Guitar is almost a given, for me. I play, what I play, when I'm supposed to play it, then back out. This pedal gizmo, though, is another beast entirely! The guys in the band think I'm doing good, though 'cause I play "Fire on the Mountain" just like the record

So it's gotta be a confidence thing, and I guess that means we mess stuff up, in front of enough people, till we don't mess up anymore????

Charles Curtis · Posted 25 Apr 2004 4:59 am

I think that this is one of the best topics a lot of musicians ponder. It can be very stressful to miss a "lick", trying to go by the book, so to speak. A good friend of mine once told me, "if you make a mistake just keep playing (like it didn't happen)". I think this is a great place for all the "pros", guys I idolize to come in and offer opinions on this subject.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

This is something that we should speak of more often..

Being a 6 stringer for decades and although not great..consistency is not a huge factor anymore, it's sorta like auto pilot now,but the 6 string pretty much only requires that you stand there , look dumb and be almost in tune.

The Steel..for me it is more of a situation where it takes a little bit to get started..just like a Diesel on a cold day..there's too much going on at the same time...unlike the Tele'..or Stephens Les Paul..

I practice the stuff I'm supposed too during the week..regular practice routines..but when it comes time to gig ,although I mentally know what needs to be executed..most times it doesn't happen until a little bit later in the gig..if at all...

Most of us get up early in the AM, go to work for 8 or 10 hours, rush home get our gear and head to a gig, set-up and the first tune called is Working Man Blues ! Yipes..NOT NOW Guys !! Hello fumbling licks....

Being older now also contributes to getting a slow start to execution..I have found that my picking patterns are the last to arrive on the bandstand..so lately I have been,here we go with that melody word again..the first several tunes I play very close to the melody lines for all solo's..rather than try to play like Bobbe Seymour..

This Instrument requires all sorts of stuff to occur at the same time..some things don't arrive when ya need em' most ! Hopefully they arrive before the end of the gig though..

Regardless of which Instrument we play..seat time, fretboard knowledge, good ears and patience are always required..if we ain't ready to rip off the licks..then don't..lay back and play short sweet phrases..maybe all night if we have to..

IF the licks we wanna play are giving us trouble then thats what it is we need to practice over and over and over again..until we get it right and feel good about them..

I play lots of bad licks..thats how the band can recognize the good ones !

Keep in mind that many of us, although we play a lot and may have been playing a number of years, are not seasoned professionals with careers attached to our Instruments.Most of us do other stuff most of the time and our little minds are not on music ..we are not mentally prepared to just go out and gig..not the the pro's are always ready..but they are closer to the mind set and there auto-pilot mode is usually a fine consistent performance.As Bobbe mentioned above, sometimes you hear one of the Pros and they are really screamin'..then you talk to them and they say they were off tonight !

I wouldn't worry about the bad licks..as the song goes..

"if it weren't for bad licks, I wouldn't have no licks at all"...

t

by the way..Stephen my little SC buddy..Fire on the Mountain..on the record the Steel is really off pitch..is that how you play it ?

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 25 April 2004 at 08:20 AM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Part of the problem IMHO is the"lick" nature of the steel. I've been playing 6 string in a R&B/rock band for 30 years in St. Louis. I havn't for a long time tried to learn "licks". I can usually tell when someone is forcing a lick into a song. I really try to play phrases,and my playing has really gotten(to my ears) much better. Licks are mechanical practiced motions, that may or may not be musical statements. I know it is very difficult as a newbie on steel to not get into the lick thing. Great players are consistently good,often great, but seldom play the same thing twice,note for note. JimP

Keith Murrow · From: Wichita, KS

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[This message was edited by Keith Murrow on 26 October 2004 at 03:18 PM.]

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Keith you are right on about signature licks. I'll try to do them accurately on 6 string if the song requires( I'm not good enough on steel to cop anything yet), but the song rules what to play, not the lick. Let us know how it's going, I need all the help I can get. JP

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Besides echoing most of the ideas so far expressed by others,let me say that breathing is indeed important.I don't know how zen or yogic this is,but if I'm getting ready to strech out on something challenging like Orange Blossom Special,or a solo I know I can have trouble with,I always try to calm my spirit for a few seconds and take a few real deep breaths. Nothing fancy or organized - I just try to stock up on oxygen whilst I slap myself across the musical face,essentially saying to myself: "OK - here we go!" I usually get positive results.
The other thing I would say is that though most of us have things worked up for a given tune that we tend to play the same every night,if you find yourself departing from that through a missed fingering or momentary mental lapse - just go with it - don't try to "get back on track". Just totally bail and let your instincts take you somewhere new. It's very liberating - and much more musical. -MJ-

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Keith

You chose pedal steel AND golf?

No wonder you spend a lot of time feeling frustrated!

Try some brain-surgery for some light relief sometime.....

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

TONY-----yep.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Winnie wrote:

Les Pierce · From: Shreveport, LA

I'm going to go with the difference between the practice room, and being on stage with a band.

I too, played standard 6 string guitar for many years, and after playing profesionally for around 5 years, never had much of a problem. The steel is a different animal, altogether. I think that has to do with the fact that you must hear the steel guitar very well to be able to play it, which you can do easily in the practice room.

When you play with a band, you have to listen to them, to your steel, and, whether you like it or not, the crowd noise, the ball game on the big screen, etc. Kind of like watching your favorite TV show, while the kids are talking to you and phone is ringing!

Years ago, you could play 5 or 6 nights a week, year round, and believe me, you'd get over any problems. Those days are gone, and today, we spend more time in the practice room, than on the gig.

Les

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Strat,Tele
Dekley S-10

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