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Topic: Lets face it-"STEEL" Guitar is losing ground. !! |
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2004 11:51 am |
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The PSG depends on ONE musical genre for 99% of it's survival. That's a big problem.
Country prosperous-Steel prosperous and vice versa. This needs to change.
I would hate to be in a situation where the acceptance/awareness of the only instrument I played was at the mercy of some record producers in Nashville. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Jan 2004 12:13 pm
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What would be wrong with taking your Instrument to a local club with a bass player and a drummer and playing 2 or 3 sets of Big Band or Jazz standards. The rules don't say you have to be as proficient as Buddy, Paul, Doug ,Tommy etc..The rules are fairly simple, play a nice in tune arrangement that can be recognized..
This clearly is not a limitation on the Instrument , is it ?
A member of our Forum here who's initials are JC does just that.
Now me, I could do a set of maybe 3 or 4 songs then they would ask me to leave !
But I'm workin' on the 5th...
t |
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Joe Miraglia
From:
Jamestown N.Y.
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Posted 13 Jan 2004 1:16 pm
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| Tony I think we are on the same track. This post said,Lets face it STEEL GUITAR is losing ground.I Think it's ok,just changing some what.Maybe after not playing for some years and now working with a band makes me say steel is alive. It's like the old saying " If your neighbor is laid off it's a rescission ,if you are laid off it's a depression" Joe |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Jan 2004 1:30 pm
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Yeh but if your neighbor is laid off and you got a promotion.....
Ain't gonna be no meeting of the minds on your street..
t |
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Joe Miraglia
From:
Jamestown N.Y.
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Posted 13 Jan 2004 2:04 pm
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 Joe |
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Chuckie Acevedo
From:
Fresno Ca
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Posted 13 Jan 2004 2:14 pm
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Steel guitar has died and been brought back more times than I can remember.When prices get too high interest wanes. Ive got to give credit to Carter for bringing on the "Starter"...a reasonably priced,quality guitar for the price.The type of music comes and goes too, its all part of the nature of things.Count the times youve gone back and forth from Rock to Country.This instrument will always have a following, sometimes small, sometimes big...just like the people that play it.
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Chuckieboy
Sho-Bud Prolll
Fenders Deluxe6,CD8 C3,D10
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Chuckie Acevedo
From:
Fresno Ca
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Posted 13 Jan 2004 2:21 pm
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Oh....one more thing if a few of the manufacturers would get off their thrones and do some time at guitar shows ,it might create some interest(if not generate some revenue)Oh by the way theres life (sometimes meaningful)west of the Colorado River.Also alot of people wanting to see about Steel Guitars.
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Chuckieboy
Sho-Bud Prolll
Fenders Deluxe6,CD8 C3,D10
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Bill Simmons
From:
Keller, Texas/Birmingham, AL, R.I.P.
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Posted 13 Jan 2004 9:15 pm
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Quote: "Fox news reported tonight that country music sales dropped 10% in 2003 over the previous year. Its the highest percent drop of any music genre reported..."
From many players I've talked to recently, they are concerned that our present "steel fans" are dying off and the average age of an attendee at local steel guitar meetings is probably 60+. I can't see that it has gained ground...that's just my opinion ...the steel guitar needs more of the R.R. creative style and thinking ability of a Randy Beavers and Mike Smith to take this incredible and versitile instrument into other musical styles of music. Again, just my observation and thought... |
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Mike Cass
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Posted 14 Jan 2004 12:31 am
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I just had this same conversation with another steel player and it came to us that classic country music, or at least some parts of it, doesnt seem to be politically correct in this day and age.
Outside of the fact that its great stuff, Bluegrass has enjoyed its second coming due in part of course, to "Oh Brother" and the sweet gospel singing of the Whites and Ralph Stanley,for starters. The values represented appeal to a wide demographic and likewise, their attraction to Bluegrass and Southern Gospel Music follows. If youre in either of those fields, youre working. AM country radio has done an excellent job of using "Oh Brother" to introduce younger fans to its brand of newer country music. PBS seems to have an inexhahaustible fan base among a younger generation for traditional stringed instrument music and harmony singing.
But when those younger folks hear George Jones, Ray Price or Connie Smith in person, theyre awestruck! They buy CD's, autograped pictures; pretty much anything you have to sell. AATW and The Time Jumpers and their faithful recreations of the Texas Playboys and Spade Cooley sounds among others, are two other fine examples. You can even see it with the college kids who frequent lower Broadway when its late at night and the tempo is right They respond to the genuine emotions in Classic Country music. Many say they wish it was available in a wider assortment of media.
But the older Honky Tonk, Story, Heartbreak, Cheating songs we all love arent in the face of the younger folks like AM Country radio is. Story songs are pretty few and far between, and its not cool to imbibe much so there goes the background music, and real E9 country and C6 western swing sounds become the ultimate poster children for bad behavior, radiophonically and cinemagraphically speaking Or as Nashville studio ace Russ Pahl told me several years ago: "they dont want real steel, just give 'em a caricature of it.."
Nowadays, a fiddle, dobro, banjo and mandolin are all elements of huge curiosity to those who before their resurgence, could'nt have cared less and delighted in jokes about the same instruments and their artists. Dobro for example, is everywhere. Dobro used to be that sound that popped in on the soundtrack when a fellow with a taste for hard cider wobbled about in some flick about moonshiners in Kentucky, or a couple of depression-era outlaws were heading to their demise.
Likewise, the Accordian suffered torture at the hands of musicians and comedians alike for decades. An accordian playing friend of mine recently pointed out that it looks like its PSG's turn now
So, they hear a pedal steel guitar and immediately its stereotyped as "that crying in your beer thing", only because some of its best moments have been captured on those particular styles of recorded music.
On those records it was there to be heard, and so it was. Now its a texture, not accompaniment. Sometimes its disguised as anything but a steel, and the jokes begin....
just mho. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 14 Jan 2004 1:29 am
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The resurgence of Bluegrass has been a boon for the country music scene,
but it is more a down home morality play, but not lecturing, and more roots and basic to the human condition ; as Bill M. intended.
And less in the barroom, I'm a rebel but not really, lost my love, endless heartache, crying in my beer thing than much of 50's-70's country seemd to embody.
And yes this whole lyric scene is much less PC these days.
PSG was integral to that sound and now is some what identified with that philosophic placement.
So it now needs to replace it's self in a new philosophic place for a new generation.
It has succesfully done that in Sacred Steel, but in this overtly religious context it becomes more limited than mainstream, regardless of whether the message is good or not.
Robert Randolph is the only one melding steel to a mainstream musical style and adding a good but not overtly "pushy" or lecturing tone to it.
Good times, good groovin music, good message, and lots of fun.
The other place, not as big, but never fading away is the blues area with that rock edge to it. Most young people who get past hip hop will listen to blues based rock and there has always been a good slide guitar element in this genre. From Duane Allman to Little Feet, Clapton, Stones and the old blues players of yore. There has always been a home for slide.
I have been thinking the best new home is there: 2nd millenium blues,
with a touch of distortion and a lot of feeling.
Expand that to a bit of the acoutic guitar rock bordering country, but more curerent and there is something for the new listener to grab onto and make their own.
If you think about it blues was a precurser of country and bluegrass ; think for a second about much of Jimmy Rogers music...
Hank was great, but he had cut a bit of the blues edge off of J.R., but after Hank it became more formulac and too strong a ; in the bar room, I have failed, and I am wallowing in my sorrow theme.
Sure not all the songs, but too many.
And that kind of killed the genre for many young people. They jusy couldn't identify with it.
And with it the integral sound of PSG.
As an instrument it needs to chart new territory. IMHO
I can put on a classic country CD and many people will go, ok nice... and not have much interest, Oh, nice voice, is that a steel? etc.
But I put on Blackened Toast and they start groovin on Dan Tyack's band, and then hear the steel and go WOW, cool!
I am writing country songs, but also leaning towards the blues thing heavily because PSG can be ultimate bluesy slide guitar with a jazzy rock edge and has an audience already accustomed to sliding notes.
I just got more notes available now.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 14 January 2004 at 02:16 AM.] |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 14 Jan 2004 2:28 am
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fellow players..this is not a dig on anyone ..but we do have some facts to follow rather than only hype..
I just checked the current Billboard top 100 albums list..all styles. You too can check it..it's free..
are you ready
Toby #9
AJ #27
Martina #63
Shania #64
Chicks #72
Toby again #73
Lee Anne #89
Rascal Flats # 100
RR's not even on the list..
So what are we saying here..?
almost 10% of the top 100 selling albums right now, all music styles ,are albums that have Pedal Steel Guitar in the very unpopular Country Twang..right ? wrong ?
The new direction, RR' playing the electic slide/steel is not even on the list ..does this mean anything ? Well to me it means he may not be as mainstream as we all may think he is..
He is in the stream..but which part of it ..who knows..one thing is for certain, folks are not running out buying his cd's..at least not more than the above mentioned "Country Twang" recordings..Paul Franklin's incredible playing and technique is still outselling the new Saturated Steel style hands down ..no contest..
My opinion is still the same..go ahead and rock out..play the Hendrix covers...get some different exposure working..but don't put the A and B Pedals in the attic just yet..
t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 January 2004 at 03:26 AM.] |
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David Langdon
From:
West Bridgford, Nottingham Notts, United Kingdom
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Posted 14 Jan 2004 2:42 am
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Just to add a few of my ideas on the subject. I am trying to do my bit here in the UK. I have had some releases last year that were in the 'mainstream' category of music so at least there is some exposure of the instrument. However, I don't know if they would know that sound is a pedal steel. I also, when doing a session, tend to listen to the track to hear what counter melody or echo of the tune I can incorporate, rather than 'what lick do I know that fits in there'. My point is I'm stamping my mark on a track and hopefully it will sound like I've put the icing on the cake. I also might get all call in the future for a session where a pedal steel is not the first instument that comes to mind as a result.
As for getting the instrument 'out there' I do, now and again, play in a modern jazz/blues outfit that's quite melodic, and people come up to me an talk about the instrument. I really sell it! I can think of one occasion where a guy said he was really interested in getting started. I gave him my number etc and even said that I knew someone that had a good cheap steel to sell. Of course, he never rang.
Just my little contribution. Dave |
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Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Jan 2004 11:27 am
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| Anybody have some ideas how we can get more people to become aware of Steel?I am working on some FUND RAISING projects that I will be able to "PLUG" Steels but, we need a steady effort to make the Public aware of the instrument. Ed |
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Joe Miraglia
From:
Jamestown N.Y.
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Posted 17 Jan 2004 2:22 pm
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| Ed like I said before go out and play it . I've got a gig tonight, the people at the V.F.W. Corry Pa. will see it(I'll try my best Players have to join bands and play that steel. Not too many people can fit in ones bedroom. If someone says, is that hard to play, don't scare them away by saying Oh yes it's hard to play. Ed I'm not saying you personally. Steelers that can go out and play but,will not becuse (I don't like the music or no money in it or no one likes me or I dont play a Push Pull,on and on). Then say-the steel is losing ground. Joe |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Jan 2004 2:39 pm
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Ed, How about make a steel/music show around a "cause"--maybe organize a fund raiser for American Cancer Society or Firefighters, for instance or a similar cause, big BBQ, get some talent in that covers country/swing interest as well as blues/rockers, pop, (maybe bluegrass with some dobro) that features predominatly steel in each of those types, put it around a holiday, like Memorial Day or 4th of July, Get a steel pickin' contest(like they do the fiddlin' contest), and offer prise money and ribbon placements. Offer ability levels -- rank beginner, beginner, inter mediate to pro, ect. Then get a jam night / steel demonstration, followed up with a workshop. Advertise heavy locally(100 miles?), then advertise like the bluegrassers do, but in all the above genres sourses and call it a Weekend Music Fest. Get your local Steel Association, your local Music associations involved, as well as sell sponsorships to your locall buisness and music stores. Local steel assoc. of course to do the demonstration / workshop deal. Oh Yea, did I mention get a radio station / and tv station involved. Oh, I almost forgot, music instruement venders that do not offer steel guitars do not get in free. Last but not least, don't forget to donate a percentage after expences to the American Cancer Society. This is the only way I know to reach new people. Our current mode of steel shows are fantastic, but they are really geared toward "those who have heard the news" and already have a love for this fine instrument. Any body else got some ideas? Summers commin'!!!  |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Jan 2004 6:03 pm
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John. Your point is well taken. As well as manufacturing coming down to the Best of the Best, playing styles, "schools of thought" are being "consolidated".
In what I mentioned,I am pleased. The things that HAVE endured, much like Bud Charleton's, Mr Emmons' Franklin's Newmann's alumni that are MORE advanced than I will be seeing for DECADES to come that the "word" will be getting out. Much like Mr's Murphy, Rey, Byrd's transcended the previous 'ups and downs'.
These things DO go in "cycles". I'm glad to see that in ALL cases, "we" seem to have all the ingredient for a successful 'next wave'.
Maybe the only 'happy thought' I've had all week.
EJL |
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Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 7:05 am
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| Mr Morehead-What you say is what needs to be done. It would help in a "Giving" way and at the same time show people that "STEEL" players care. It is a way to get media attention for the Steel while helping a cause. Most of you know I help a lot with saving animals and it has really paid off. Just think of the impact if all "PET" owners became "STEEL" owners or players. ED |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 2:15 pm
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| Thanx Ed, Maybe the seed of an idea will take root somewhere------------------ |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 3:11 pm
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Greg Leisz did some great work with Joni Mitchell in the '90s, and has also done some very interesting stuff with jazz guitarist Bill Frisell.
To me it seems as if the steel guitar, both with and without pedals, is gaining popularity among the REAL musicians outside the mainstreamed Top-40 crap.
Over here in Scandinavia I hear the steel guitar being used more and more in non-C&W settings (and also IN C&W), so I honestly believe there is a genuine interest in what the steel guitar can do, it all depends where you listen for it........
And just to make it clear,- neither Greg Leisz work with Mitchell and Frisell, or the Scandinavian stuff I refer to, falls into the "overdriven, noisy, sound-like-any-instrument" category. (But personally, I love that too..... )
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 18 January 2004 at 03:12 PM.] |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 4:13 pm
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| Any body else got some ideas? |
Forget about Sheryl Crowe and Kid Crock, they're not going to make it happen.
Put Britney Spears behind a steel, then you'll see just about every kid scrambling to get one.
[This message was edited by HowardR on 18 January 2004 at 04:14 PM.] |
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Nathan Delacretaz
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 20 Jan 2004 7:24 am
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| Steel is here to stay. If I (a 30-ish guy with no country background, playing regular 6-string in a Steely Dan-kinda jazz/pop band) could catch steel fever out of the clear blue sky, anyone could... |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Jan 2004 3:07 pm
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| I live in Columbus Ohio and now only one music store here has steel guitars and they dont even know what they have . They had one setting up that i dont think had ever been tuned and it was a Carter starter ,. Another store close to me says that steel guitar is'nt popular any more and he does'nt know how insulting that was . I told him that we have great players right here in the capital city . He said they never have a call for one . But i wonder if he had one sitting in his store and someone making it cry what he would think ! Wake up central Ohio . G.P. [This message was edited by Gary Preston on 20 January 2004 at 03:09 PM.] [This message was edited by Gary Preston on 20 January 2004 at 03:10 PM.] |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Jan 2004 4:57 pm
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| HMMMMM----Gary, I smell opportunity here. It would be fun to crash his store on a Saturday with a few pickin' buddys, say a drummer, bass player, guitar, and you the steeler. Maybe they would let you "demonstrate" this contraption, and on a Saturday, you should have a crowd circulating. You might make a few friends, help them sell it, and maybe you could gain a student or two. At any rate, you might increase the appreciation for this fine instrument, generally, and have some fun to boot!! The other store where they say they never get any call for a steel, probably would if they had upbeat sales personel |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Jan 2004 5:13 pm
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| Yes Boppa, It could work, but not with just one or two guys---It's too big to organize. I had little responce on the other thread, but maybe folks are thinkin' about it. I might have caught some off guard a little with my radical ideas---OOOPPS! |
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