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Topic: Bluegrass Pickers vs Steel Pickers Showdown !!! |
Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 7:17 am |
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| Watching the OPRY last night I was amased at Ricky and Rhonda Vincent band and how well they played. Out of curiousity I like to see a "SHOW" with thses great Mandolin,Fiddle, Guitar players "One on One" and "Note for Note" with a Steel "SPEEDPICKER" playing some of the licks etc. Anybody agree???? ED Naylor Steel Guitar Works.{No slow songs allowed} |
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B. Greg Jones
From:
Middleport, Ohio USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 10:00 am
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Ed, surely you dont mean having a B@%#o on the stage at the same time!!! LOL
Greg |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 10:08 am
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Well, to get the "show" rolling, here is a Gary Lee mp3. I wish an accomplished steeler would show me how to play these licks up to speed on steel. Some licks I can but most I can't.  Anyway Ed, I "agree" for the most part but after a while, boredom would set in.
http://www.irish-studios.com/Downloads/bugle%20call.mp3
Gary Lee
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Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 10:09 am
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| Greg- Most Blugrass is Fast pickin. My point is,these players must really have to "Pick" because they only have 4-5 strings and Peddalers have 10 String and knees. So in theory they have to move up/down frets, and manipulate their fingers more than Steelers. On the other hand could a Mandolin player do "Night Life"? At any rate it would be a "Fun" Gig. Ed |
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B. Greg Jones
From:
Middleport, Ohio USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 11:47 am
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Ed, Just funnin' ya know. I have to agree with you though. Someone like Mike Sigler would make most banjo players cut their strings off!!!
Greg |
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Walter Stettner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 12:02 pm
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Ever heard Doug Jernigan play fiddle hoedowns on the Steel? He would be the man!
Walter
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf
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Ed Naylor
From:
portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 12:12 pm
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| To really make it exciting I have a friend in Coolville , Ohio that is great Accordian player thet could provide 'BACKUP". If we used Sigler I would limit him to 2 Pedals and 2 Knees . I wouldn't want to embarrass the player against him. Ed |
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Robert Jones
From:
Branson, Missouri
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 12:46 pm
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Bluegrass music is an art to say the least. It takes a talented musician to play licks on the banjo, fiddle....etc the way they do. But I have to aggree with Gary Lee in that after a while, boredom would get the better of me. Put me in front of a stage with some talented musicians playing some Alan Jackson, or George Strait tunes any time.
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Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8
"Life is too short for bad tone".
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 18 Jan 2004 4:26 pm
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David Grisman most certainly can play Night Life on mandolin.
I agree Doug Jernigan would be great to hear
with Ricky and Rhonda, and Dolly too. |
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Butch Foster
From:
Pisgah, Alabama, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2004 7:03 am
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| When Rhonda was doing trad. country,Donna Hammett did great steel as a member of her band, also Mike Johnson did some shows with her, including an Opry appearence or two. As several of you said, they sound great with steel backing! |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2004 8:46 am
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| John Hughey would be a good choice. I heard something he did back in the 70's when he played on Dicky Betts "Highway Call" album and just smoked on some very fast bluegrass sounding tunes. Speed and endurance. |
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Don Townsend
From:
Turner Valley, Alberta Canada
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Posted 19 Jan 2004 9:50 am
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| Some decent banjo pickin' there, Gary Lee. |
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Leigh Howell
From:
Edinburgh, Scotland * R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Jan 2004 11:18 am
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The steeler with Ricky Scaggs, sure did some speed pickin! "Highway Forty Blues" for instance.
Leigh[This message was edited by Leigh Howell on 19 January 2004 at 11:19 AM.] |
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Dave Burr
From:
League City, TX
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Posted 19 Jan 2004 1:22 pm
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That was Bruce Bouton playing on "Highway 40 Blues". What a legendary piece of Pedal Steel Guitar history.
Respectfully,
Dave Burr[This message was edited by Dave Burr on 19 January 2004 at 01:22 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Jan 2004 2:17 pm
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| Sorry guys, I think banj0 players win hands down in the speed contest! As many as 10 to 15 notes per second (or more) are possible on many rolls. Blocking (which comes naturally on a fretted instrument like banj0) seems to be harder on steel. Most all steelers have to use open strings and "hammer" techniques, or pick blocking to approach similar speeds, and they're just more difficult. |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 19 Jan 2004 3:31 pm
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Donny, I think the blocking you are referring to on fretted instruments is accomplished by the instrument itself, not necessarily by any technique applied by the player. The 15 notes I've spit out on banjo don't sustain like they would on steel. If I have done some natural blocking, I wish someone would show how to transpose that technique and speed to steel.
Banjo speed is not accomplished necessary by just rolls either. ON a good night I can play Billy in the Low Ground in the key of C with no capo, no rolls and at about 180 bpm. That and $1.10 plus tax will get me a 16oz coffee! [This message was edited by Gary Lee Gimble on 19 January 2004 at 03:32 PM.] |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 19 Jan 2004 5:42 pm
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What about Hal Rugg, on those old Osborne Bros. records. Ever heard "Rocky Top?"
And if you wanna hear Doug Jernigan burn it down, check out J.D. Crowe and the New South, "My Home Ain't in the Hall of Fame."
Keith Whitley on lead vocals--that's the STUFF.
And why does it have to be bluegrass vs. steel? Wht would a three-chord bluegrass song be any different than a three chord country song?
And Lloyd Loar, who worked for Gibson in the 20's, didn't like pop music, and had no idea his "F" style mandolin would be the mandolin of choice for 'grassers. He envisioned the mando as a classical instrument, which it was, and is certainly capable of being yet today. |
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Aaron Garrett
From:
Roslindale, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2004 8:36 pm
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| You should listen to the great John Hartford/Benny Martin/Buddy Emmons/Lester Flatt record. I think its called Tenessee Jubilee. There's quite a bit of dueling on there. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 20 Jan 2004 5:33 am
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| Amen to Hal Rugg...super fast and clean on "Rocky Top". Since we're on the subject of speed, at a brisk tempo, say 140 BPM, those blazing solos seem to consist of 1/16 notes. Is it possible for the human ear to hear 1/32 notes, much less to play them? |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 20 Jan 2004 12:29 pm
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I have the Osborne Bros. From Rocky Top to Muddy Bottom double LP set and it's Buddy Emmons on steel instead of Hal Rugg. I have a live cut I taped about 20 years ago at Scotty's convention where Doug Jernigan was playing Black Mountain Rag. He tore the thing up and when the fiddle player (who's name I can't remember) took his ride he stumbled on the thing. Bobby Cauldwell did a good job too but ol' Doug never made one boo-boo. He was clean all the way through. I'd have to say he's the best bluegrass steeler to ever come down the pike and could hold his own with any mandolin, banjo, or fiddle player alive when it comes to speed.
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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Jan 2004 4:12 pm
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| Quote: |
| Is it possible for the human ear to hear 1/32 notes, much less to play them? |
In a word, yes. (But not at 180 bpm)
There is musical notation for 64th and 128th notes as well!
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| Donny, I think the blocking you are referring to on fretted instruments is accomplished by the instrument itself, not necessarily by any technique applied by the player. The 15 notes I've spit out on banjo don't sustain like they would on steel. |
Not entirely, Gary. Whenever you use more than one finger of the left hand on the same string, you're unconsciously doing muting, e.g., a fast alternating B and C# on the first string using the 1st and 3rd fingers. Also, just because the notes on steel don't sound like banj0 notes doesn't mean you're not actually playing them...they just sound different!
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| Banjo speed is not accomplished necessary by just rolls either. |
I never said it was!  However, the fastest groups (or "clusters", as the jazzmen call them) of notes played are played in rolls! I know of no other way someone could play 15 or more separate notes per second on a stringed instrument.
Simply put, the fastest "speedpicker" to me would be the one who can play a group of notes (a few measures, or a whole song?) the fastest while doing it cleanly.
For anyone interested in fast "speedpicking" on a steel guitar, I heartily encourage them to acquire a copy of Nervous Breakdown, by Paul Franklin and Jerry Reed. It's one of the hottest numbers you'll ever hear. 
(p.s. For those of you who haven't heard Gary Lee, he is equally adept at PSG and 5-string, a truly accomplished player. The small clip in the thread above displays very little of his real talents.)[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 20 January 2004 at 04:56 PM.] |
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