We opened for....

Stephen Gregory · Posted 10 Dec 2003 11:49 am

There seems to be a lot of name dropping along these lines. My question is this. If an opening act is simply contacted by someone on a local basis to open a show, does this have anything to do with the real headliner? Isn't this differnt then say, Brooks and Dunn handpicking an act to open there tour? I would tend to believe that most headliners had nothing to do with local artists that are hired as opening acts. Is it a "strech" when local acts claim some sort of connection to these head liners?

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

The late Cub Koda (Brownsville Station) had a list of 36 Rules for bands. number four on the list is applicable to this post, and I've included the others because I could:

quote:

CUB KODA'S 36 NEW RULES FOR BANDS IN THE 21st CENTURY:

1. Never start a trio with a married couple.

2. Your manager's not helping you. Fire him/her.

3. Before you sign a record deal, look up the word "recoupable" in the

dictionary.

4. No one cares who you've opened for.

5. A string section does not make your songs sound any more "important".

6. If your band has gone through more than 4 bass players, it's time to

break up.

7. When you talk on stage you are never funny.

8. If you sound like another band, don't act like you're unfamiliar with

their music ("Oh does Rage Against The Machine also do rap-rock with

political lyrics?")

9. Asking a crowd 'how they're doing' is just amplified small talk. Don't

do it.

10. Don't say your video's being played if it's only on the Austin Music

Network.

11. When you sign to a major label, claim to have inked the best contract

ever. Mention "artistic freedom" and "a guaranteed 3 record deal".

12. When you get dropped insist that it was the worst contract ever and

you asked to be let go.

13. Never name a song after your band.

14. Never name your band after a song.

15. When a drummer brings in his own songs and asks to perform one of

them, begin looking for a new drummer IMMEDIATELY.

16. Never enter a "battle of the bands" contest. If you do you're

already a loser.

17. Learn to recognize scary word pairings: "rock opera", "white rapper",

"blues jam", "swing band", "open mike", etc.

18. Drummers can take off their shirts or they can wear gloves, but not

both.

19. Listen, either break it to your parents or we will; it's rock 'n'

roll, not a soccer game. They've gotta stop coming to your shows.

20. It's not a "showcase". It's a gig that doesn't pay.

21. No one cares that you have a web site.

22. Getting a tattoo is like sewing platform shoes to your feet.

23. Don't hire a publicist.

24. Playing in San Marcos & Alpine doesn't mean you're on tour.

25. Don't join a cover band that plays Bush songs. In fact, don't join a

cover band.

26. Although they come in different styles and colors, electric guitars

all sound the same. Why do you keep changing them between songs?

27. Don't stop your set to ask that beers be brought up. That's what

girlfriends/boyfriends are for.

28. If you use a smoke machine your music sucks.

29. We can tell the difference between a professionally produced album

cover and one you made with the iMac your mom got for Christmas.

30. Remember, if blues solos are so difficult, why can so many 16 year

olds play them?

31. If you ever take a publicity photo, destroy it. You may never know

where or when it will turn up.

32. Cut your hair, but do not shave your head.

33. Pierce your nose, but not your eyebrow.

34. Do not wear shorts onstage. Or a suit. Or a hat.

35. Rock oxymorons; "major label interest", "demo deal"," blues genius",

"$500 guarantee", and "Fastball's second hit".

36. 3 things that are never coming back:

a) gongs, b) headbands, and c) playing slide guitar with a beer bottle.

"

Steve Hinson · From: Hendersonville Tn USA

...excellent...

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Beautiful!

But to the subject at hand--there's precious little in this life to brag about. If I play at a club that is only a few blocks away from a place where somebody impressive once played, I reserve the right to drop that name.
I do believe you are right, though, Stephen, that opening for a name band means neither that you all are drinking buddies nor that you are their hand-picked successor. But surely there's somebody you can impress.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

It's the Promoter of the event that will pick opening act(s) and usually they are the band that draws locally for the event. The Main act has nothing to do with picking that band....Unless they are on a tour together...than it's another senario.
Ricky

Stephen Gregory · Posted 10 Dec 2003 12:49 pm

There seems to be a trend by mostly "local" type acts to perhaps put a comment on a promotion piece or on their "website" making statements such as, "so&so band has 'shared' the stage with such notable acts as...". I for one am put off by this, for the most part, flagrant name dropping. Also I wonder about musicians who were once part of a "Major" regional act. Isn't that an oxymoron? And, Yes Ricky, That's is my point exactly. There is no confusion about that issue.

[This message was edited by Stephen Gregory on 10 December 2003 at 12:51 PM.]

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Stephen. Right you are.

Similar are "Back up Bands".

My last two experiences with this are good examples.

One local band that I've been playing with was the regular weeknight band at a local truck stop then Dierks Bentley did a show. When they were done, we simply "finished the night". It was nice to "use their sound equipment" and having people bitch about "the loud music" like they usually do. We got our full wages as if it was a night that we played the whole night.

Opening and other "billing bands" are amost never "selected" by the "artist".

Back up Bands.

In 89 a band I was with was "chosen" to be "Hank Thompson's Back up band". We, like hundreds of other bands around the country got a "work tape" and set of appearance guidelines. Poor Hank..

Luckily in our case we did pretty well and got paid $125 @ and got to talk to Mr T. I'm sure it didn't work out as well with other cases. David Frizzel used to do this too, and I was in one of those years ago. I think Rex Allen, the Hagars, and LJD and others have done this.

In the most recent case, the band I play the most with was "commissioned" by a local agent through a regional agent, through Collin Raye's manager, whom incidentally I and a couple others in the band knew, to be a "back up band" for Collin in a 4-5 grand "personal appearance". It was to be such that Collin would come on, and "do some acoustic stuff" and that would be "it".

The way it worked out he liked the band, and since I'd known him from years before, he played with us backing him up the rest of the night. It was set up so that he didn't have to had we been a shitty band. ( can I say that?) We got paid 1200$ for it. (200$@)

The good things to come out of both in my case was getting to meet other players, and get to give my "card" out. Also to use the people, ( that's right "use") the opportunity to get a player like Gary Morse to be able to hear "my" playing and be able to comment accordingly if he's asked in passing. Similarly with Collin, as it had been twenty years since I'd been in the same local circuit with him. His manager was forced to sit and listen to the whole night as well, and is NOW in a position to reccommend (either) the band involved OR "me" for future opportunities.

I agree,"We Opened For..." can only mean that your band won some backwater, bush league, pitifully rigged hacking contest. It usually does. "Sometimes" the band or artist can "pick" a band to accompany them, and they often do, even in the present. There ARE bands that travel as an "opening act". It IS the exception.

In ANY of the cases, it IS an opportunity for "bush league" ers to get exposure to "what's REALLY happening."

One rule of thumb is whether or not is whether your GETTING PAID.

If you're not, doing this is the biggest advertisement of your and your bands' "Chumpdom" that there is.

The more you advertise it, the more of a Chump you are. Especially if your relatives come and buy tickets and beer.

"That's my story", as a friend of mine said...

EJL

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

while it is flagrant name dropping, it is also a way for someone to give a quick idea in a promotional item of their relative local success and ability... if they've opened for a bunch of major acts, they might be pretty good...
then again, they could suk and have a brother-in-law who books venues...

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I see nothing wrong with this at all. A local band that consistently is chosen to open for major acts year after year usually turns out to be a pretty good band. I find that the people who complain about it are either bedroom players or $50.00 a night VFW once a month players with little playing ability. I am promoting a major Nashville act here in Bufflo (I will not name drop), and the band that I pick to open (besides mine) is a local Nashville quality country band who are all excellent smoke players. And believe me, anyone who knows me knows how critical I am about talent.
You sound like you are jealous.

Andy Greatrix · From: Edmonton Alberta

I have worked for over 40 years in country bars.
After many years, I realized that I am just a beer salesman.

On the upside, I got to play with a lot of good pickers and see a lot of the world.

On the downside, no one hires me these days and I don't have a pension.

Would I do it over again?
In a heart beat!

[This message was edited by Andy Greatrix on 10 December 2003 at 01:48 PM.]

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Stephan, what major acts have you opened for this year?

Stephen Gregory · Posted 10 Dec 2003 2:05 pm

Wow, Sorry Kevin. No I'm not jealous of any local bands. I just don't see where a local band opening for a major act means any thing at all. And as was mentioned by the Cub Koda list, for the most part nobody cares.

Stephen Gregory · Posted 10 Dec 2003 2:14 pm

Sorry if I offended anyone. I will respectfully bow out.

Chris Schlotzhauer · From: Colleyville, Tx. USA

Willie Nelson told me to "never name drop".

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Stephen---absolutely nothing to apologise for. Chris, on the other hand.......

Tom Mortensen · From: Nashville TN

Stephen,
I think your opening statement has plenty of merit.
However, I have seen the biggest line of BULL
work time after time, night after night.
Each of us has to take what we get and run with it.

Tom Mortensen · From: Nashville TN

Chris...GO TO YOUR ROOM!

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Excellant!!

While we're at it, how about learning our state mottos:

Alabama: Hell Yes, We Have Electricity

Alaska: 11,623 Inuits Can't Be Wrong

Arizona: But It's A Dry Heat

Arkansas: Literacy Ain't Everything

California: By 30, Our Women Have More Plastic Than Your Honda

Colorado: If You Don't Ski, Don't Bother

Connecticut: Like Massachusetts, Only The Kennedys Don't Own
It...Yet

Delaware: We Really Do Like the Chemicals in Our Water

Florida: Home of the headless drivers

Georgia: We Put the "Fun" in Fundamentalist Extremism

Hawaii: Haka Tiki Mou Sha'ami Leeki Toru (Death to Mainland Scum;
leave your money )

Idaho: More Than Just Potatoes ...Well Okay, We're Not, But the
potatoes Sure Are Real Good

Illinois: Please Don't Pronounce the "S"

Indiana: 2 Billion Years Tidal Wave Free

Iowa: We Do Amazing Things With Corn

Kansas: First of the Rectangle States

Kentucky: Five Million People; Fifteen Last Names

Louisiana: We're Not ALL Drunk Cajun Wackos, But That's Our
Tourism Campaign

Maine: We're Really Cold, But We Have Cheap Lobster

Maryland: If You Can Dream It, We Can Tax It

Massachusetts: Our Taxes Are Lower Than Sweden's

Michigan: First Line of Defense from the Canadians

Minnesota: 10,000 Lakes... And 10,000,000,000,000 Mosquitoes

Mississippi: Come and Feel Better About Your Own State

Missouri: Your Federal Flood Relief Tax Dollars Hard at Work

Montana: Land of the Big Sky, the Unabomber, and Very Little Else

Nebraska: Ask About Our State Motto Contest

Nevada: Hookers and Poker

New Hampshire: Go Away and Leave Us Alone

New Jersey: You Want A ##$%##! Motto? I Got Yer ##$%##! Motto
right here!

New Mexico: Lizards Make Excellent pets

New York: You Have the Right To Remain Silent, You Have the Right
to an Attorney .....

North Carolina: Tobacco Is a Vegetable

North Dakota: We Really Are One of the 50 States!

Ohio: Home of Lake Erie and the Mistake by the Lake (Cleveland)

Oklahoma: Like the Play, Only No Singing

Oregon: Spotted Owl... It's What's for Dinner

Pennsylvania: Cook With Coal

Rhode Island: We're Not REALLY an Island

South Carolina: Remember the Civil War? We Didn't Actually Surrender

South Dakota: Closer Than North Dakota

Tennessee: The Edjucashun State

Texas: Si' Hablo Ingles

Utah: Our Jesus Is Better Than Your Jesus

Vermont : "Yep."

Virginia: Who Says Government Stiffs and Slackjaw Yokels Don't Mix?

Washington: Put the fun back in dysfunctional.

Washington, D.C.: Wanna Be Mayor?

West Virginia: One Big Happy Family... Really!

Wisconsin: Eat cheese or die.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Stephen. No need to "bow out".

People that don't express their opinions are taking over the planet.

I noted that one qualifier IMHO is "getting paid".

In the "end", that's all that counts anyhow.

Jesus saves souls. The Muse doesn't.

As I and others noted, it IS a great opportunity to "pass your card out.

In the result of the two "openings" are actual jobs in Nev this winter. Moreover my card sits in the desk of Steve Cox if a band he's handling "needs a steel player". He had to listen to me for 3 hours.

Gary Morse got to "catch" about an hour of my best playing. He thought I had "too much reverb", but if he really gets screwed over by some band in the future, he might think of 'dumping me' on them. Hey "Grudge Jobs" can be the best of all...

I shook Hands with Richard Nixon, Andres Segovia, SI Hayakawa, Carlos Montoya, Captain Kangaroo, Ernest Tubb, and Sonic Sam.

We used to "get high" with the GD and the Chambers Brothers when the Dead came through Portland and stayed at the farm I used to pay rent on in 71-3.

I got to play Hank Thompson's Guitar for a sound check.

James Watt told me I couldn't smoke in his backyard at a Pentacostal picnic I was invited to.

I never name drop, or I'd mention that all of the above told me that I was the coolest guy the'd ever met. Even James Watt after I played my banj@ for him.

I'd like to here more on the "Opening Band" thing. It's a GREAT topic.

The most memorable person I ever met, I see every other day or so...

In the mirror....

I dallied with not idolizing him for a few years, but it didn't work out....

EJL

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Not only don't the "name" bands have nothing to do with hiring the local "warm-up" group, most of the time, they never even see or hear them! These "stars" spend most of their time in the tour bus, or in a fancy suite somewhere deciding whether to do show #1, or #2 or #3, and getting their hair styled and their makeup right. Most of 'em think that there's nothing worse that being bothered by fans (who are bush-league musicians, themselves) who might pester them for a free autograph. Even if you're in the biggest and best local band, you have about as much in common with the new breed of "stars" as a guppy does with a great white. Few will socialize with their fans, anymore. There's a few (maybe Garth?) that might be interested in hearing some local talent, but the vast majority could care less who you are, or how good you are (just as long as you keep buyin' their concert tickets and CD's!)

Oh yes, for a small local band, "name dropping" might impress some people, but usually not the ones that count.

RON PRESTON · From: Dodson, Louisiana, USA

Oh, Boy,
Am I gonna get "FLAMMED" for THIS one.

Stephen, I REALLY HATE to say this, BUT, Our Band is The "Hottest Thing" in NORTHERN Louisiana at THIS time. (Notice what I said there) and ALL the MAJOR clubs is, I Swear, fighting over as to WHEN we will be availible to play THEIR club. TRUE STORY, Folks, just 3 week ends ago, one of the "Local" bands got a little "Hot" about hearing TOO MUCH of "Jeff RACHALL & 24/7" this and "JEFF RACHALL & 24/7 that. They Really came out to "Ropers" in Shreveport on a Friday night just to "SEE& HEAR" this very much talked about band. Mind you, this band "Knew" of us in a "Round-about" way, but, they just got tired of all the "HUBBUB" about us. They went BACK to THEIR club, (The Chereekee Club) in Clarance, Louisiana, and told the owner, (which, BTW, already knew us) about us, and all "That Jazz", and WE are to play THEIR club the 19th & 20th of Dec. Check out our Web site, and you will see..jeffrachall.com
It's not a big thing to "Open" for national Groups, BUT, Belive me, Your band has to have a pretty good "Track Record" in order to do so...Otherwise, word gets around FAST when you Open for the "Biggy's" and you do a YUCK JOB.
I'll shut up now.
Have a Merry...

RON PRESTON · From: Dodson, Louisiana, USA

Donny,
You are so right. Most DON'T care one way or the other, but, the Pics I have been taking for 20 some odd years will give my Son something to talk about someday.

Tom Mortensen · From: Nashville TN

Donny,
Not all, but a lot of the "Stars" are as you describe.
Some are open and available.
It has been my experience that most band members are accessible and many times go in early for a glimpse of the opening band.
Developing friendships with members from other bands is one of a musicians most valuable networking resources.

[This message was edited by Tom Mortensen on 10 December 2003 at 03:52 PM.]

Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

I've done some of that 'opening act' stuff around here in Austin (and at one particularly onerous club in Temple, since closed), it was always the promoter or club owner that 'hired' the opening act. A few of my astute observations (from true life experience, all of this really happened):

1) Generally, they want you to play free since you'll get 'great exposure'. And of course 'you'll be in the regular club rotation from now on too, with lots more gigs..' (what they don't tell you is they'll be just like this one, unpaid)

1a) You buy your own drinks and/or food.

2) When you show up and the headliner sees you start draggin' your crap in, they get a look on their face like they just stepped in something your dog did in the back yard. Clearly they don't know what's up with an opening act, and generally they don't look happy.

3) You're given about 2 square feet to set up a steel guitar and amp. It's usually between some monitor that you can't move and a bass or keyboard rig that you can't touch either. Normally one of their roadies will hang around and make sure you don't jack with anything.

4)The drummer has to bring his own kit (no way you're gonna use any of the headliner's stuff) and he generally sets it up about 18 inches from your right elbow in the only space left. The lead singer/front guy will usually have the butt end of a cymbal stand nudging him somewhere south of the equator.

4a) Sound check? Right...

5) You start playing to about 30 people that don't know or care who you are, and the monitor that you can't move or turn down is 'ice picking' your ear. You look in vain for the monitor guy, but he's over by the back door checking out the headliner's bus.

6) After about 45 minutes of this 'fun' you quit to thunderous silence and tear down your stuff. Now you can't get out the back door because the club staff has been told 'nobody' goes in or out the back door once the show starts.

7) About 30-45 minutes later you find a mgr. that will tell the bouncer/door guy to let you out, and you find out that while you were inside your car got blocked in, the band moved their bus at some point, and you can't leave until they do.

7a) The headliner is playing by now, and the first thing the guy on stage where you were set up does is yell across at the monitor guy to turn that d@mn monitor down.

8) You finally get home at 2 or 3AM, you made no money, (in fact you are probably out quite a few bucks in gas and food), your ears are still ringing from that monitor on stun in your left ear, and you notice somebody spilled a beer on your case while it was 'queued' up to get out the back door.

BUT.... what great exposure the band got.

Corollary: The great exposure was generally having your band name mispelled in 5 point type at the bottom of a 1 x 3 add in the local paper.

100% true...

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Donny H. Like Mr Mortensen said "most" is a better qualifier. Theres' the case where an "artist" dumps his label, and/or management, and has to "get creative" looking to tour and pay their bills. Also the "snap in band" in the "Poor Hank" example.

A lot of times, a local player CAN get to talk to a "big leaguer" and find out stuff. I know ET was ALWAYS there after any gig to talk to anybody that wanted to. I did it myself once when younf and once in the 80s.

More about this, probably as this "gets going" but

HERE's a case where the opposite is true.

Our Local Truck Stop is a passing through point for Tour Busses, and on MANY occaisons people on them will get off and come in a BS with the band. I met a guy named "Edgington" ( I think) that was playing with Mel Tillis in the nid 80s. He'd been coming in for a week and some guy finally came up and told me. Was nice to visit with him, and I was glad he didn't tell me earlier or I'd have had a worse week being nervous.

(This while I worked 2-7 nites AND a day job)

Anyhow. Brooks and Dunn came in one night, and took the stage. and hacked through an hour or so. What chapped my ass was they did it "for free". I wouldn't care if I would have been in the band. We've tried so hard to keep wages from turning into into the Jerry's Kids Tip Jar system that the last thing "we" need is top name people coming in and showing the management what kind of stuff they can "get for free". Next thing you know they'd be advertising for "top name" bands to stop in and perform as a way to get money off their fuel bill and then "dismiss" the band for the night.

In an overview, I'd rather meet a guy that drives a 13 axle lowboy and would take my "driving card" ( yes I have one) and remember me when I come in looking for a 60 THOUSAND dollar a year job WITH benefits REAL tax and SSGLI payments, and REAL job satisfaction.

Believe me, or not, I spend MORE of my time looking for these types of contacts than I do "meeting big guys" that at best can help schlep me into a 700 a week twice a month non tax paying, no benefit "job".

This year AND last in our worst of all states' economy has found me practicing music more than I have for the majority of years that would find me bringing in a GRAND a week AFTER taxes, and playing 2-5 nites a week for MORE money. My "Playing money" was how I bought and paid for my 20,000 63 panhead. Because of this, my attention to my playing and my equipment has been a welcome byproduct, and nothing more.

50+ grand a year is more than ANY band that I know of pays even the best players. To make that much they have to be able like "rodeo stars" to fly in and out, do a "day gig" on a computer terminal while "on the road", and do a hell of a lot more than the "Texas Troubadour Type" of legend ever though of having to do. Even a couple of them, like ET's drummer I met once claimed to be a "concrete worker" in the 80s.

DO I wish I was in a "top name band"? Only as a "time filler" while heavy construction ramps up this year. Would I take a 700$ a week "peppermill" gig? Only similarly. Especially considering a $1000 a week after tax day job is REALLY a $2000 a week job with benefits, SS and taxes paid on top. Not to mention "legitimacy".

I think that possibly a lot of "middle level" and possibly "top level" musicians, here and elsewhere seem to get the idea that people "like me" want to be more "like them" or somehow "envy them". I think it's pretty clear that "I" don't. Some I INDEED DO, but not for their "professional playing status". Especially if they only make $30,000 a year doing it.

There are kids that still have zits that make more than that driving diaper service trucks.

Say this afternoon, Collin Ray calls, and says I "have" a slot in his Carnival Tour this Spring for 500$ a week and all the champagne I can drink. I tell him "sure".

Then... the phone rings again, and it's Redmond Heavy Hauling calling for a full time $25.00/benefit slot that "might last into the summer" hauling cranes into and out of a dangerous "tunnel job".

Guess what...

I'd be playing 2-5 nites in the local critter club truck stop, hauling in money hand over fist, getting my Marrs Rebuild on track, new cowboy boots, a nice pickup, and making my pitifully low mortgage payments. Happy as a dead pig in the sun.

People that don't have to live in other people's living rooms, or in a run down trailer selling their stuff while they are dying, to be buried at other peoples' expense, REALLY come closer to being people that " I" am trying to "relate to", "meet" or "impress".

Others' results as always....

If somebody meets me riding in a Silver Eagle, eating curly chili-cheese fries in a back up band for the latest One Hit Wonder, or working at Gilleys in Vegas this winter as planned, you'll know two things:

One: My lull in construction for the last couple years has afforded me enough time to get my playing up enough to "handle" the job, and that the people I met here and elsewhere in this little "renaissance" were kind enough to help me.

Two:

Construction is still in a lull here in Portland.

A quick check of my "Profile" will show what I consider myself to be, and what my hobbies are.

EJL

Incidentally Mr Hinson, Doug Jones says you and I would get along famously if we ever got to go out and "carouse". I'm sure we'd have a scream

...

[This message was edited by Eric West on 10 December 2003 at 08:04 PM.]

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