I was wonderin'.. Why do...

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

many Steel players change brands or Steels , like regularly ? What is it about the current Steel that doesn't make it or the new one in your cross hairs that does ?

Or do ya' do it just 'cause you can ?

I play on a D10 Carter, 9+8..there's enough music on this Steel for me to learn in a couple of lifetimes..So, yes ,true.. I always see other Steels that look cool, nice wood body, etc..but it certainly is not going to inrease my skill set by changing Steels..so I probably will not change Steels unless something dramatic jumps up right in front of me..Just like my Tele'..I can and will play this for the next 40 or 50 years ..ok thats an exageration..but you get the point.. Changing Tele's is not going to make me learn more licks faster..is it ? I still have to tune it and bend the right notes at the right places...

So those of you that do, and you know who you are, why do you change Steels frequently ?

T

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Grass is greener.
So many people are so happy with their guitars. I'll have what he's having!
I dig my Carter. But if I could have 10 guitars I wouldn't have 10 Carters. I want to taste them all.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

There is a myriad of reasons why a person would change steels often. Same as cars or anything else. I believe little of it has to do with wear and tear.

Rather it is part of what makes us humans. The following are just some of the reasons I believe some change steels often.

1. Seeking "that" sound they have hunted for years.

2. "He got one. I have to have one"

3. "Never cared for this one, want a new one".

4. "It would cost more than a new one to add the pedals and knee levers I want now."

5. My pedals are much stiffer than the one I sat down to at the convention.

6. "Absolutely love the looks of that new Zum"

Etc, etc, etc.

My own personal reasons for trading are none of the above. They were:

1. I sold my Fender 400 (could not even raise the high G# to an A without it breaking the first time) and bought a new Emmons; becase Gene O'neal told me it was the finest steel guitar ever built. And, "it will not break the 3rd string." This was in '69.

When I got it, I was dissapointed. It neither had the sound nor the pedal action I would have thought it should have from the way Gene had bragged on it. I DID break the 3rd string, albeit not as quickly as did my 400. I disliked it every time I played it because of the sloppy pedal action if a string was raised and lowerd.

2. So, I sold it and bought a brand new LeGrande in the 80's (don't remember the year) because Emmons' went to an all-pull; and I had realized from the day I bought the P/P that the all-pull was the ONLY way to fly. It was the last 4 hole bellcrank model they made.

So upset that I let a dear friend talk me into insisting on the 4 holer's. I plunked down 250 dollars to replace them (on a brand new guitar) with the newer 14 hole bellcranks. Jack Strayhorn begged me to go with the 14 holers when I bought mine. But as is so often, one tends to listen to their friends instead of the person who knows what they are talking about.

3. When Sierra introduced their new Session D-10, I fell in love with it the first time they debued it at the ISGC. I just loved the pedal action. Plus esthetically I thought it was outstanding.

So I plunked down $4200 cash for a 9 X 9. It was the biggest mistake I ever made. NO way could I keep a 3rd or 10th string on it for more than a few hundred engagements of pedal A and B. And no, the changer fingers were not the cause. I will die believing the cause was the string scale.

Also, I never dreamed that when Sierra designed the Session, they had made a serious design mistake in the pedal and knee lever "stops". IE, they were no where near rock solid. After talking to Don at Sierra many times about it, I deemed it was NOT worth the machining necessary to cure the problem. And Sierra offered to do nothing about my problem.

Also I was not; and I am still not convinced the newer modified stops were and are as solid as I wished. Also because it was keyless, it did not have the sustain as my Emmons has. I will get flamed for this, but after much research I am convinced that all keyless guitars have less sustain (everything else being equal) than keyed guitars.

So I put it up for sale. It was one year old and was brand new in essence. Never played outside my house; but once at a friend's house. I had it on sale for over 2 yrs and was glad to get 2400 dollars for it. I only received 2 inquiries. Thank God the second person bought it. But I had to throw in a brand new volume pedal along with some more goodies to sell it.

4. My last guitar was a result of wanting something NO builder I talked to would consider. I had designed in my mind and on paper a guitar that would have many things I felt were a great improvement. So I talked to most of the builders. Not one was interested. I did not blame them. Still don't. They are not hurting for business, and who wants to cater to an old wannabe?

However, thru the blessings of Jesus and my dear friend Bill Stafford, Mistuo Fuji of Excel said he would build me a PSG exactly as I wanted it. This included over 30 changes (some major); and the cost would still be quite reasonable. Even including the shipping costs from Japan to the US.

I agreed and he did it. And it was the best decision I ever made when it comes to the PSG. I love this guitar like none I have ever owned. Since I am changing all the bellcranks to Emmons 14 holers, and since it has a changer that does NOT break strings, I have (in my mind) the absolute best (for me) PSG I could have at ANY cost.

Every time I play it, I love it more. It was my first venture into the ultimate world of universal and I love that feature soooo much, I would never go back to a D-10.

I have not played my LeGrande since I received my Excel. For some reason (I have no idea why) I just do not want to part with it. So it just sits there year after year unplayed. It has 9 and 4, indluding the hysterisis mod, plus a box of 5 brand new knee lever kits that I received as payment for doing some video work for Ron Lashley. I have never installed them.

"That is me story and I am sticking to it"

carl

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I owned two Mullens first off. Neither of them had decent string separation and the tone sucked on both. Went to a push/pull and I was happy. Great string separation and outstanding tone. Played great also. I stopped playing professionally for two years and sold the guitar. When I went back playing again I vowed that I was only going
to buy a guitar(s) with the sound that I wanted. Thank God for Bobbe Seymour, Dan Dugmore, Duane Marrs, and Tom Brumley. I've been playing my restored Sho-Bud Professional
and ZB Custom ever since and I will NEVER change.

Walter Stettner · From: Vienna, Austria

I love my trusty old MSA D-10 (8+7)!

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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I first owned a ZB S-10. Sold it to buy a ZB D-10. I later sold that guitar to get a Kline D-10. Both ZB's were great guitars and I only sold them to upgrade. I went to the Kline because it had a great sound (different from the ZB) and great pedal action. And it was keyless (of course as much as I respect Carl's opinion, the Kline sustained forever. Did tests against my ZB, a Sho~Bud Professional, a Sierra, an MSA and an Emmons). I bought a used Sho~Bud Super Pro. I kept my Kline, and I am glad I did. The Super Pro (my opinion guys, so don't flame me) was a piece of junk. I couldn't make that guitar sound good (even put on Lawrence 710's)and play good. I eventually sold this guitar. A few years ago, I bought a Carter. I only did this because I wanted more pedals and knee levers than would fit on the Kline and Kline went out of business. I had to sell the Kline because of my wife nagging about me having 2 guitars and the money I got for the Kline would help put some money back into the savings account.

If I get to the point where I can own more guitars, it will only be for the sheer joy a having them.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

A lifelong musician friend of mine has been thro' a dozen or so pedal steels; selling this for that, and often losing money on the deal. His reason for buying/selling: EMOTION.
I'd say his first motivation is "THE SOUND" he's chased most of his playing career. Then it's what "the other guys have that is better than what he has".
Personally, I guess I'm the skin flint. I have my "NEW" Bigsby; my "NEW" Emmons; and my host of "NEW" Ricks...... I wouldnt dream of selling any of these.
I sold my beautiful 1947-48 Gibson lap steel and my 1950-ish triple-8 Fender at my wife's insistance. NEVER AGAIN!
The guitars I now have give me "THAT SOUND" and I've been fortunate to have found them with minimal horse-trading. My life is calm.
Oh by the way, when my NEW EMMONS arrived, the G# string was already broken but they replaced it promptly! That's service.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I think a lot of times it's the "Visuals".

Myself, I can't see changing from something like the Sho~Bud layout and rock solid changers and JW rewinds.

I noticed that since I treated my fretboards to the new Off White "early" color scheme that it was like playing a "new" guitar. It sure brought a new "life" to sitting down behind it.

Felix James and I discussed over the phone that he felt similarly about his ZB with it's white fretboard.

I think you'll find that a LOT of guys ( and gals) stick with the one they found to be the best. I know Don West had his Brown Wood Grain formica Emmons for most of his playing life, and is probably still playing it in Valhalla™. The new Session D10 he owned he was selling for half price when I talked to him b4 he "got his new gig". I didn't buy it, nor did I ask him why he was selling it. He was still in pretty good health at the time.

It's a lot like guitar players I think. Some of them have a new one every month, and some have the same worn out old strats and teles "forever". Glen C, and SRV are ("were" in SRV's case) a couple I can think of. One guy I played with for years tried new paisley and other altered teles, and preferred his Bullet over them all. Go figure.

Your Results, as the say....

EJL

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

"A lot of times it's the 'Visuals'." So true! My current Sierra Session SD-12 has been modified (some might say "butchered") so much that it's butt ugly, but it's the most comfortable pedal steel I've ever played. Still, I want a new one that looks new and pretty.

I bought the Williams D-10 crossover because after playing a Sho-Bud crossover I wanted a modern crossover guitar, and Bill Rudolph was willing to design and build one for me. Thanks, Bill! I really didn't expect it to sound as great as it does (I didn't know what to expect sound-wise) - thanks again, Bill!

Now I keep thinking about a D-12 crossover. Why? Because I love the extended E9th and I've been learning an extended C6th on another S-12 guitar. I want to gig with both tunings, and I don't want to try to teach my legs how to do 10 pedals and 8 levers (I like 5+5 best). So at some point in the near future I'll probably be calling Bill again.

I don't know why most people switch steels, but for me it's been an evolution of capabilities, ergonomics and appearance. I'm actually pretty happy with what I have today, but it won't stop me from taking the next step.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 27 November 2003 at 11:58 AM.]

Walter Stettner · From: Vienna, Austria

I agree that many players are hunting for the fabolous sound they hear on the other guy's guitar, but keep one thing in mind: Sound is pretty much a result of the person PLAYING the guitar. I know a couple of people who constantly switch guitars in search of the better sound (and they are happy doing that, I believe), I also know others who have a definite plan when they change guitars, mostly it's technical reasons (smooth pedal action etc) or expanded ways of playing, like Bobby mentions.
We are all different: Buddy Emmons played a lot of guitars and sounded great on all of them while Lloyd Green is still on his old green Sho-Bud LDG, three pedals, 4 levers and sounds fantastic (I know he was playing a JHC in the meantime!)
And, last but not least: Everybody who is buying a new Steel supports the community and helps the manufacturers to survive!

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Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

I bought a Sho-Bud Professional in December of 1974 and I'm still playing it. It has its Idiosyncrasies but it still sounds great. I would someday like to have a push pull Emmons and a newer all pull guitar, but I'll never sell the Sho-Bud. I can understand someone going through a few newer guitars till they get the right one, but when you sit down to a classic Sho-Bud or Emmons, its usually pretty easy to tell if it's a goodn' or not. Kevin, I am curious, did you have your Sho-Bud Professional restored to original specs or did they put a newer undercarriage on it?

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

buy and sell as much as you want,if that makes you happy who cares?I do it all the time.I play a guitar for a some time and if I see something that looks interesting I`ll sell mine and buy the new one,why not?You only live once,right?It`s not like you`re cheating on your wife or something,you can always go back and buy the same brand you had if you want to.I had one guitar I would have never sold if I didn`t need the money,my `74 Emmons restored to perfection by Jeff Peterson,to this day I`m sorry I sold that guitar,but I sold it to the good friend in TX and at least I know it is in good hands.I had some other great guitars from 100% restored `69 Marlen and new GFI to d-12 Emmons PP and all kinds of Sho~Buds,they were ALL great guitars and good enough to do any job.I`ll always have a good guitar,will thet be an MSA or LDG or Legrande does not really matter,they are all great guitars.At this moment I have a wonderful Sho~Bud Super Pro with metal necks and not planing to sell it any time soon,I have a new PP on order that will be done sometimes in February and that should be enough for me.Will I still be buying and selling steels?You bet I will,can`t stop,just too much fun doing that.Enjoy your life and if trying a new guitars makes you happy,do it,it`s not a sin.

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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Bob, I did the max on the Professional. The mechanics were converted by none other than Duane Marrs of Sho-Bud including a body reinforcer to eliminate cabinet drop. Ten hole bellcrank system for fine tuning of action. All metal was polished. It was refinished by AJ Nelson of Sho-Bud and signed by Lloyd Green. Its in pristine condition.

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

Good Question.

This is crazy, I know. I am thinking of upgrading my MSA Millenium M1 to the new M2!

"Faster Horses, Older Whiskey, Younger Women, and More Money!"

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

I had somewhere between #3 & #5 of the very first Sho-Buds built in 1957. Up until 1980, I owned about a dozen more Sho-Buds. Except for the first-model Baldwin Cross-Over, every Sho-Bud was a fine sounding/playing instrument IMO! Therefore, my reason for changing guitars was, for the most part; a matter of up-grading. Then in 1980, I discovered the Franklin Guitar! (Not literaly) But, it has a sound and playing ability that I like, so; I'm now playing my third Franklin. This time, my reason for replacing steels has been simply for the cosmetic-factor. I don't have, and doubt if I ever will have; any reason to change brands again, and probably won't even change guitars again either! I also have my '49-'50 Fender T-8 Custom, with freshly rewound P/U's, by Jason Lollar. Both guitars are giving me the sound that I've always strived for in my 55 years of playing. And, as the woman says on the Long-Distance Commercial: “I'll never switch again”!

I've even just landed a ‘temporary’ Steady Week-end Gig, at my old age!
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“Big John” Bechtel
http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

[This message was edited by John Bechtel on 28 November 2003 at 12:19 AM.]

[This message was edited by John Bechtel on 28 November 2003 at 12:22 AM.]

Charles Curtis · Posted 28 Nov 2003 5:36 am

I would like to "echo" the great service by Emmons Guitar Co. Ron has always given me great service.

RON PRESTON · From: Dodson, Louisiana, USA

Hey, Ron...
If you "Upgrade" to a M7, then you will be WAY ahead of the game. It's like "upgrading" from a ProFex 11 to The "Newest" thing on the market. You will Never keep up...You will go broke...at least for me that is. Technolegy is a never ending game of "Keeping up with the Jones'es" you might say. I guess that's why I just stay with what I have, because I already have "That Tone" that I was looking for that everyone else has. Now, if Emmons comes out with a BIG Breakthrough with the "Lashley Lagrand III, THEN, and, only THEN, would I upgrade. Some Pickers are "Addicted", they simply cannot "Stop" themselves, They are "Hooked", and they need "Help" in the worst way. And, of course, That's OK, nothing wrong with that, as long as they "Know" that they are "Sick", Man, "Sick"....Now, please don't "Flame" me, I'm just as "Sick" and I'm having FUN here on this wonderful Forum that Mr. bOb has furnished for SOME of us "Sick" Folk.
Can I get off the couch, now, Dr.?

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

When I have money I buy instruments and amps.

When I run out of money I sell them.

Bob

Derek Duplessie · From: La Jolla CA USA

Tried them all, liked most of them but none compare to my Franklin!

Steven Welborn · From: Ojai,CA USA

Kevin H. That P/P you sold...was that by any chance a '72 black fatback?

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Thats the one Steve.

Steven Welborn · From: Ojai,CA USA

I thought your name rang a bell. I sure like your taste in guitars. The two you own now ( not yours'of course)would be next on my list also if I was plush. My first steel was a single ZB. A real goosebump tone but that particular axe was mechanicaly crude and unplayable. A most frustrating combination. BTW, I had Mike Cass rebuild the P/P and add some levers. He did an outstanding job. Glad he did it and not me. Good to know your back in the swing in happytoneland with some great guitars.

[This message was edited by Steven Welborn on 28 November 2003 at 10:51 PM.]

Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

Kevin, I was wondering, did you have the ZB rebuilt to specs or did you have a newer style undercarriage put on that one as well? I am not familiar with ZB's but I can remember hearing some at the ISGC years ago that sounded great. Also, what year was the ZB? The idea of having older guitars rebuilt instead of buying a new one appeals to me.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Bob, the ZB was worked on by Jerry Fessenden (who worked for ZB) and Greg Jones. The guitar is a 73-74 vintage. I play it out near every weekend and just love it. Original mechanics. Jerry replaced the knee levers with four new adjustable polished alluminum knee levers. The knee levers were also repositioned to make them more ergonmically comfortable. Zb knee levers are very wide apart and need to be repositioned. When I got the guitar it was stiff as hell. Jerry took the changers out, cleaned and lubed them, added a second string half stop (ZB's didn't have them ), and adjusted the action. I then took it to Greg Jones because Jerry was busy building his own guitars and just didn't have more time. Jerry did me a big favor. Greg tweeked it out a little more. All the metal was professionally metal polished and the guitar looks practically new.
Anyone who says Zb's can't be adjusted to play butter smooth is dead wrong. I think alot of them were released from the factory not adjusted properly or people fooled with them after they got them and messed them up. Mine went from clutch pedal to butter silent smooth action. Other players who sit down and try the guitar are shocked. I think that there are alot of older steels out there that are severely out of adjustment. Ricky Davis sees this all the time.
Steve, its a small world isn't it? Glad you put some work into that push-pull. Thats what I was going to do if I would have kept the guitar. I hope you are enjoying it. Mike Cass does sterling work!

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 29 November 2003 at 07:31 AM.]

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 29 November 2003 at 07:32 AM.]

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[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 29 November 2003 at 07:49 AM.]

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

Boy have I had the steels!! Started with Shobud Baldwin crossover, then to an MSA D-10, moved to an MSA 'The Universal', on to my first Kline S-12U, I also had a couple of BMI S-10's I used for rainy day gigs, then thought I had to have aluminum necks so I move to a Mullen SD-10, from there to an EMCI S12, then to a Mullen S-12, then a Sierra Crown S-12, to an Emmons Legrande [that was before the sierra, I think] then a GFI D-10, then to Richards old D-10 Kline [I agree with his assesment of the Klines] back to a GFI D-10 and most recently to another Kline Laquer finish S-12 U with 7+6, which has to be the ultimate in keyless design, those Klines are just super guitars - my said, thats the last one, so I guess it will be the last for me. Just use it in church gigs an ocassional recording sessions.
Ernie [totally nuts, I know there is a room at the local nut house for steel pickers like me]

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