What's Robert Randolph's niche?

David Doggett · Posted 9 Aug 2003 2:42 pm

Since the Letterman thread was getting a bit long, I thought I'd do a spin off from one of the issues raised there. I've seen RR and other Sacred Steelers several times, and love what they are doing so much I picked up an extra used 12-string to try out the E7 tuning (it's now languishing in a corner waiting for me to get around to changing the setup). But I have trouble seeing where RR is going.

In a sense what someone else pointed out on the other thread is true - if he were playing the same licks on a 6-string, you would hardly know the difference, and he wouldn't be getting noticed. As it is, outside of his church, his following is the young white college-radio, small-club-in-the-big-cities crowd. This is a pretty small and fickle niche. This is the same niche market that keeps blues alive (as well as retro rockabilly and cowpunk - it's an eclectic niche). So he fits well in that niche. But it's a limited venue that does not reach any mass black (or white) audience. If he goes in the direction of jazz, that's another small niche, that is kept alive by the older black middle-class (it's their classical music). I'd love to see more pedal steel in jazz, but that is not going to take either RR or the pedal steel into any mass market.

Things do move out of the college/club niche into the mass rock-pop market from time to time, and maybe RR and pedal steel could do that. But the really big break-through would be in the pop-hip hop scene. That scene does pull influences from blues and R&B and rock. But right now it's all about rhythmic repetitive licks and minor key stuff. Latin and Middle-Eastern minor key riffs and rhythms are having a big influence these days. It's hard to see how the liquid major-chord sounds of pedal steel would fit into hip hop. You'd have to go back to the minor blues sounds of the '30s. RR could do it if he had a mind to. He experiments with Hendrix and Clapton licks, and he could probably play anything if he could hear it in his head. But I don't see the blues-gospel thing going into Hip Hop very easily. And the spiritual nature of his church background, which he holds onto strongly, is going to have rough sailing in the gangsta/ho street culture world of Hip Hop. On the other hand, something like the Black Eye Peas new hit "Where is the Love" seems like something RR could go with easily.

So I'm not making any predictions, except to say that Eric's African-American neighbor is not likely to come over and start talking about RR and pedal steel until you hear RR or a pedal steel in some big hip hop and pop hits.

David "Where-is-the-steel" Doggett,
Alias Philly-Dawggie Dawggit

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

At this point with Warner Brothers and all of the TV coverage he's getting, he can go anywhere he wants. Kind of reminds me of The Staple Singers and Aretha Franklin coming from where he's come from. He's sticking to what brought him here at least this far. He's young and probably doesn't have a clue yet. He's got a long way to go and develop. It's his road he's carving out and we're watching. The Jazz and the Bluegrass market for that matter is somewhat limited in listeners but it's what's in them that makes them play this stuff. It's not mainstream but that doesn't mean it's not good. Right now he can ride the waves playing other six stringers licks or what he knows of them because he's unique in his instrument. This aside from the topic here but I never could figure out why more blacks both male and female haven't entered the country market. Surely there has to be more than Charlie Pride out there. I got a CD of a young black artist the other day and he's a big George Jones fan. His name is Linus Modeste. I would think that the country market being in a downslide for the last couple of years, Music Row would give serious consideration to anybody regardless of color for a new upcoming artist. You'd think they'd have run out of the typical Soap Opera look-a-likes by now but maybe not.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I think RR has sort of forced his way into the record company's attention because he has been getting a wildly enthusiastic response at his live shows from the young alt/jam band festival crowds for a few years now - maybe talent can still triumph, after all. Plus, a label is more willing to promote a band who is willing to tour non-stop to sell records. Re the black thing, CMT had a "100 Greatest Country Songs" special wherein Kimberly Locke (of "American Idol") nailed a version of the old Patsy Kline tune "Crazy". They're also playing a concert clip of Norah Jones convincingly singing an old Merle Haggard song with Willie Nelson. The talent is there, in other words, it's just a matter of the right song and performer at the right time. I think that Sheryl Crow/Kid Rock song "Picture" indicates that the younger crowd can still be susceptable to a real song that tells a story - the video played on both MTV and CMT. Of course, I thought rap would be dead a long time ago, but it seems to be the soundtrack music for a whole generation. This means that when I'm in the old folk's home they'll still be using rap hits from the 90's to advertise Zap-O-Blaster genetically engineered bran muffins. Oh goodie.

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

these days everything is a same old stuff all over again on the radio.Girls look like Britney and guys like Brat Pitt and thats it.They can`t sing to save their lifes.They are all good (but boring) on their CD`s but live..God,thats another story.Tim,Faith,and look-a-likes are all over the place.It used to be where you could guess the artist by the intro in the song.Willie,Waylon,Merle,Jones,Buck etc...they all had their style.One person who was very famous and respected mesed everything up...Chet Atkins ,ever since country music is going more and more and mor to pop and bubble gum stuff.I wouldn`t take a gig with Tim even if I could ,it would be too boring and nerve braking for me to listen someone who can`t sing nite after nite ,but I would move to Branson and leave my job now if I knew I had a gig with Charlie Pride.Now the other thing,about black listeners in the country music is probably that there is not enough music in country music today.It`s all the same.Sound and looks.I know few black people and they all love George Jones,Randy Travis etc...that showes me that african americans need more than plain and stupid made boring songs to get interested in it.With them is all about the feel and music coming from the heart and soul (I`m not talking about kids,black and white,who listen that gangsta rap stuff,non of the older african american I`m talking about here don`t listen that stuff at all)so since there is non of the soul or heart involved in todays country music (but planty of BS and cash),country music lost a big part of the audience ,the part that used to be a main consumer of country music,and those are older people,middle age 30`s and up.There is nothing for older people to listen in country music today,all the same bla,bla,bla stuff.As far as RR goes,he`s doing what he wants to right now (luckaly he is not in the hands of the Nashville buble producers and will stay away from them)and he is having fun.It is very interesting fact that he plays pedal steel ,wich I like ,since pedal steel is a very new instrument and needs to expend out of the country circle that its closed in right now.I`m sure RR will envolved with the time and probably start using knee levers and pedals and I`m sure in the next few years we`ll see more from RR.

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Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Here's to Zap-O-Blasters Bran Muffins..

Time to change I think.

I like Eminem sometimes, I like(d) Curt Cobain (sp), Cheryl Crow, Billy and the Beaters, The Pointer Sisters, hell even Craig Mack.

As the coffee kicks in, I'd say that it all started when GJ, CP, W/W etc wanted more of their money than the Powers that Be were willing to give them.

Viola!

Alabama!

Then a couple of little bluegrass bands got blown all out of porporion, rammed down our throats, taking over all the rest of the musio-religio-political "machine", and somewhere down the line, a few good artists like Randy Travis, Brad Paisley and a few others get thrown in as "ringers". I like them.

Basically it's a big mish mash. Pick your artist, sort through a hundred internet stations, listen to psychobilly all day if you want. Retro Punk, Stoney Cooper/Wilma Lee is right there too.

I think it's all a little past what we remember.

I'm not saying that it's time to "Abandon Hope", but it IS time to pick a way to look at it, enjoy it, maybe fit into it, and realise that if it ever got "simpler" that it would be at too great of an expense on a personal level.

I'd rather that the "trains didn't run on time"...

EJL

Pat Burns · From: Branchville, N.J. USA

quote:
Viola!

Alabama!

...Cello!

...Mississippi!

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

....occarina!

....Brooklyn!

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Clarinet & Flute
Greenwich Village

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Damir, you said it brother! Country music was NEVER meant to be exclusively for 18 year old girls. It is a mature form music for the most part. I think that mature people have nothing to listen to and have been abandoned. I also have no desire to play for a bubble gum Nashville act. I jsut got Anita Anderson's album. Real country music with John Hughey. Screw the blues. I can listen to it, appreciate it and play it, but its not what I am. I'm a country boy.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 10 August 2003 at 01:53 PM.]

Grant Johnson · From: Nashville TN

He seems to be attracting the "Jam Band" crowd at his shows....
The same bunch who are going to see: Ben Harper, Widespread Panic, Phish etc. I think that this is the demographic that the Label is courting, a good move as this is upper middle class 20-40 year olds with discretionary income to spend on records and concerts.
Also with a bit of crossover into the "Americana" crowd... (Wilco etc)...

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Extract the blues from country music and ain't nothing much left but zippety doodah.

Theresa Galbraith · From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA

Robert's bigger than St.Louis thus far.
But, I hope his niche becomes more than a wall, one to hold a statue.

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

Well I don't know about you guys Damir. Don't get me wrong. I love country music the way it's supposed to be played but if Faith comes up and offers me a gig for $100,000 plus a year I'm outahere. I'd play drums for Robert Randolph if he asked and love it. We're just sidemen and can't be quite that independent. I don't know a full time picker anywhere that would turn down a gig like I just mentioned. If you're going to be a picker and nothing else then you'll do what you have to to eat. Big name acts like Faith and Tim can buy a lot of steaks. If you turn down one of these gigs, tell them to call me.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Well, he couldn't ride or wrangle, and he never cared to make a dime, but give him his guitar, and he'd be happy all the time, and all the girls from nine to ninety were snapping fingers, tapping toes, and begging him don't stop And hypnotized and fascinated By the little dark-haired boy who played the Tennessee flat top box

And he would play....

Play on Brother.

EJL

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

I don`t wont to prostitute my music ,I sold myself to the day job (even there I work for myself and nobody else) but will not sell out and play something I hate.If I get offered a gig for $100.000 ,well ,first of all I don`t know anyone who is making that kind of money playing steel for an artist and second there is no job security what so ever doing that ,would I accept the job ,depends I guess, tough question.I`m hoping to make close to that with my business maybe next year,and I can still play some Hag and Jones with my old p/p down town and be happy without selling out.But maybe I`m just full of it ,maybe I would take it ,never know,like I said,thats a tough one.

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[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 10 August 2003 at 03:44 PM.]

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

Get real Damir. You'd sell out and you know it if you want to call it that. We're all just prostitutes anyway if you're a working full time picker. You may have the luxury of telling Tim McGraw to kiss it or maybe Kenny Chesney to jump in the lake but when these guys go out and play the kind of gigs they play and pay you big bucks to play and give you all of the extras I just don't know anybody that would turn that down. You can go downtown and play all of the Haggard and Jones you want for $20 and tips or you could play with Faith and look at her all night and get payed too. For me, it ain't no question. You can always make a special trip downtown to play with those cats between playing with Tim or Faith and going to the bank if you got time!

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

The mainstream steel guitar community is a niche. What Robert is doing is the real thing.......

I know he has made it a lot easier for me to book gigs in a band featuring the steel guitar, playing music I love.

------------------
www.tyack.com

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Yep. It's (psg) the syrup that sells a lot of stuff.

I've played in heavy country places where no band could EVER sell "What you won't do for Love", rap, and recently a Bob Marley type rap tune "Who's got you're back when it's all done" about "world peace" and such piffle. We did with a bunch of surly looking truck drivers and bikers. They were looking like they were skeptical til they heard a loud steel lick and ride, and ended up clapping, which is rare.

As far as not "prostituting" one's musical "gifts":

I'm sure glad I've never done anything like that....

I'm sure it is making it easier to book gigs in "other venues".

Like I said.

PLay On RR.

EJL

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I believe that should be Voila, or "See There" or " there it is", not Viola.
The french word for rape is viol, as in violation.
Et voila.

I think RR has created a new niche, by carving into 2 others and keeping what he liked. Gospel/Funk grafted on to Stevie Ray Vaughan Blues. I like the idea a lot.

After having sung " Daddy's Little Girl" at two weddings I can't see much else as prostitution.

If I can't stand the music, I just don't take the gig, but most things don't bother me.
As long as I can play like me.
Since I like to play almost any style that's not so big a problem.

But I-V on bass all night does wear thin awefully fast, with out any IIIs-VI's and VII's in the mix or any solos.
I certainly perfer to play mandolin and steel on country, versus the bass.

I would love to play bass for RR, that would be a fun gig, as long as I don't need to become a castratée to sing the parts.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 August 2003 at 01:19 AM.]

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Damir.
Chet Atkins did not mess things up, he saved it.
I don't know what country you are from but you obviously do not know the real deal about the 50s/60s and what happened musically here. You need to do some research before you make the same old tired "blame Chet" statement about why country music is not still three chords and a cloud of dust and snaggle tooth rednecks listening to it and 8 string non pedal steel guitar players and Nudie suits and Loretta Lynn with big hair.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

.

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 12 August 2003 at 03:01 AM.]

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Damir is correct about Atkins. He disliked steel guitar and fiddles on recordings and was prone to using corny back up vocals and silky string arrangements from keeping it sound too country. Thats just a fact.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 11 August 2003 at 09:46 AM.]

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I think David Doggett is right on target. I also feel that what he (RR) does on steel does not make full use of the instrument's potential - in fact, if you'd had your eyes shut while the 'Letterman Show' was on, it could have just been an over-driven guitar with a bottle-neck slide. I confess, though, to only having heard a little of what he does.

What steel needs is another 'Sleepwalk'! (well, with a different title, different chords and a new melody, but you know what I mean.....

)

RR

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 13 August 2003 at 02:55 AM.]

Brad Burch · Posted 11 Aug 2003 8:52 am

"..He seems to be attracting the "Jam Band" crowd at his shows....
The same bunch who are going to see: Ben Harper, Widespread Panic, Phish etc. I think that this is the demographic that the Label is courting, a good move as this is upper middle class 20-40 year olds with discretionary income to spend on records and concerts.... "

Thats it right there. I live in Athens Ga home of Widespread Panic, a big time "jam band". Those guys sell relatively few albums in the grand scheme of things, but tour about 300 days a year. They sell out the Phillips Arena(25,000 seats) here in Atlanta every New Years for three nights. Phish does the same thing. These bands tour very, very cheaply too...not elaborate stage shows.

Don't forget Dave Mathews sells more albums and concert seats per year that all the "New Hat" bozo country knockoffs combined.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

My favorite Chet Atkins record, of the 80+ I have, is "SuperPickers". He produced it and featured Weldon Myrick in every song.

What's that got to do with RR? Sorry...

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