HSGA posts

Ron Victoria · From: New Jersey, USA

I was looking at some of the posts on the HSGA site. The most recent ones were a year old. Am I missing another page for the most recent? What's the story?
Ron

c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

Ron, the website is run by volunteers and is not kept up to date very well. I have sent many topics and answers to questions and none ever get posted and some of my friends have had the same problem. It has become better to use No Peddlers on the SGF. I wish the HSGA forum were better. cc

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

The HSGA online Discussion/Forum is essentially inactivated.

Please do not send anymore posts to it.

Everything else on the HSGA website is fine and I update it when needed.

The HSGA website is not run by volunteers. It's run by volunteer.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 28 May 2005 at 03:10 PM.]

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Don,
The HSGA forum was not like this forum.

This forum uses Internet forum software. The software facilitates the posting, editing and monitoring of the messages. It also maintains a database of forum members to discourage spamming. Each section of this forum has a moderator who checks all the messages. This moderator has the ability to delete or move inappropriate messages.

This software costs money. Money upfront and I would imagine money for upgrades and bug fixes. It also requires a considerable amount of computing hardware. Also, the traffic on this forum racks up high monthly internet provider fees.

The HSGA forum was basically a webpage that posted emails. People would email their questions. These questions were reviewed by one or two people in the HSGA office and then pasted into the webpage. This was usually a 2-3 day process when things were not busy and sometimes 2-3 weeks otherwise. If the HSGA people were on vacation or the email was inadvertantly lost... well, you get the picture.

The Internet has made people accustomed to instantaneous responses. They want to see their questions posted and they want results fast. That's just the way things are nowadays.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 29 May 2005 at 06:42 AM.]

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 29 May 2005 at 09:13 AM.]

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

Gerald,

A good reasonable rationale.

Thanks for educating us.

It was helpful.

Aloha,
Don

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

My personal opinion is that if you can't maintain a forum, then don't promote / make it appear as though it is a special feature of a website (like the HSGA website does) ...that people will waste their time having hopes waiting upon answers that are hardly ever be forthcoming.

A few years ago I too got so tired of seeing people biting the bait and asking bona-fide questions on the HSGA only to go ignored / unanswered ....that I started providing my personal contacts on some of those HSGA question postings ...to try to help some of those folks with their unanswered questions (something Jerry Byrd said all his life was very important in promoting the Steel Guitar and being a professional musician ... and which I too felt the same about). A number of them did contact me and got their answers in most cases.

I finally gave up trying to help, considering the HSGA more hype and "club" than a results/performance-oriented organization, ...and their own gig / business they are entitled to. I have seen motivation to excellence wax and wane in the HSGA; And am happy to see it waxing quite well with SOME of the volunteers efforts.

I've said a number of times that the performance of an organization is dependent upon it's Leadership qualifications and motivation; And it's performance rather indicative of the quality of it's Leadership and need for same when indicated.

The other side of that coin is that the HSGA knows their business, intent and circumstances much better than I.

As always, my best wishes for the HSGA.

Aloha,
DT~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 29 May 2005 at 06:38 PM.]

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

I'd like to know what has been done by the HSGA in the past, being done now, and is planned for hitting up the City and State for any/some/lots of $ and major support of Hawaii's own State instrument.

I believe the City was helpful in the early days, and maybe somebody who had hands on knowledge of those efforts could provide insite on if/how it was done.

I don't think the State has done much at all toward the preservation or study of the steel.

If the HSGA is not willing or able to do what it takes to get blood from a turnip, then maybe they can provide what knowledge they have on such matters to the individual masses out here who would might be willing to try getting something accomplished in spite of it all.

I doubt too many steel players/lovers outside the HSGA have that much experience/clout to get much attention from the politcal/commercial beauracracy, so all the tips and experience that can be imparted would help a lot.

[This message was edited by Ron Whitfield on 29 May 2005 at 08:00 PM.]

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

After reviewing Gerald's response once again, I came away believeing that lack of money was the primary problem? And perhaps another problem, that of manpower.

What if money was not the issue and there was enough money to fund having an operation similar to SGF with sufficient hardware and software? Would it be a viable option then?

The following suggestions might help toward a solution. Maybe?

1. Seek funds from the the foundations and trusts of Hawaii who have as a mandate the perpetuation of Hawaiian culture.

2. Ask HSGA members to include HSGA in their wills.

Note: I am aware of a man, (who will remain nameless at this point), who intends to contribute to HSGA between $200,000 and $300,000 when he passes.

Would a contribution of this size take care of the issue?

All of our efforts are to perpetuate the Hawaiian steel guitar, and sometimes we may need to think outside of the box.

Aloha,
Don

[This message was edited by Don Kona Woods on 29 May 2005 at 09:20 PM.]

Gary Boyett · From: Colorado

I know I am just a brand new member in the HSGA but has anyone ever asked b0b to add a section (topic)just for the HSGA. It would certainly be less expensive than the club hosting your own site.

This SGF is a work of art by b0b and he could use the financial support.

Never hurts to ask.

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JCFSGC member since 2005
Fenders- Georgeboard- Melobar
Boyett's Glass Bars

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

The HSGA forum is officially deactivated.

There are no links on the HSGA site to the forum.

If you use a search engine such as Google you may find some old links pointing to postings on the forum but you will reach a dead end trying to connect.

Short of redesigning the entire website this is the best I could do.

I apologize to everyone who posted questions and comments and received nothing for their efforts.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 30 May 2005 at 06:39 AM.]

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

What do you guys want?

Do you really think the world is going rediscover and embrace Dick McIntire, Sol Hoopii and Genoa Keawe. Do you really think kids and the general listening public can relate to that today?

I'm frankly amazed there was a Hawaiian music fad in the 1920's - 30's. Back then Hawaiian music was in the right place at the right time and it took off! The world was emerging from a very conservative time. World War One had just exposed American GI's to many things they never experienced before. New countries, new lifestyles, new foods, new sexual attitudes. The Roaring Twenties happened and Hawaiian music fell right in there. People were primed to experiment with EVERYTHING.

Hawaiian music is a tough sell considering the state of music today. With American Idol, Hip-Hop,Paris Hilton etc. dominating the scene I doubt we can get the world to embrace lyrics like:

Ahi wela mai nei loko
I ka hana a ke aloha
E lalawe nei ku`u kino
Konikoni lua i ka pu`uwai
*Konikoni lua i ka pô nei

Do you really think a non-Hawaiian can deliver these lyrics with any amount of conviction? Be real! I also doubt that many Hawaiians today could deliver these lyrics the way their grandparents could.

Well, you say, just sing Hapa Hoale songs. This is a double edged sword as well. Many HH songs are racist and trivialize Hawaii and are just treated a novelty tunes.

Well, what about contemporary Hawaiian music? IMHO it's not ballsy enough and should not even be considered in the same league as Hawaiian music from the early 20th century.

Sure, other ethnic and world musics have enjoyed a renaissance as of late (Bluegrass, Irish, Acoustic Blues, Reggae). But those musics all have English lyrics and are played on instruments that are easily learned (and frankly more sexy on stage than a person sitting with a plank of wood on their lap).

Come on let's get real here. We should count our blessings that the Internet exists, Yearly Conventions occur and the FEW people in the world that actually give a damn about Hawaiian music and Hawaiian steel guitar can exchange ideas, form friendships and not feel so isolated.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 30 May 2005 at 07:28 AM.]

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

I'm inclined to agree with Gerald. The steel guitar clubs are the only way for Hawaiian style steel guitar nuts to get together.
As far as the HSGA is concerned, our President is doing it all right now, including secretarial and treasurer duties I'm told. Some of the HSGA people think that the business of the association must be handled in Hawaii, which doesn't always work because there aren't that many in Hawaii who are available to do the work. We are lucky that Wayne Shishido (and others) helped put the Hawaii convention together this year, and helped out with the rhythm back-up.
There are some other ideas surfacing about a statue of Joseph Kekuku, who sort of invented the Hawaiian guitar. I consider that a unrealistic idea, since it's hard enough to keep the business of the organisation going without diving into such a project.

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

Gerald, Do you mean to say that this is hopeless!

When in Hawaii, I run into young people continuously who say that they would like to learn to play the steel guitar. I refer them to HSGA, but I believe that there is not an adequate system in place to facilitate taking these young people further. Can there be a better system for channeling young people's interest. There is also the problem of finding master teachers?

Can we for a moment think outside the box?

Gerald or anyone else with some "out of the box" ideas:

If HSGA were offered $250,000 for the perpetuation of its goals for steel guitar, how would the money best be utilized in today's world or in 5 years?

I would like to hear from you all or if you are from the south, Y'all.

I'm trying, folks.

Aloha,
Don

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Don,

I don't believe it's hopeless. But I sincerely doubt that the world wide embrace of this music and instrument that happened in the early 20th century will happen again.

There are too many competing forces today. TV, Internet, video games, instant messaging, video rentals, after-school all-encompasing sport teams... the list goes on. Frankly I'm amazed that kids still learn to play instruments other than rock guitar and drums. Name a clarinet player that inspires twelve year olds... Now go back 70 years and you can compile a list of them. There was more time to learn an instrument back then, and more patience.

People want immediate results today. Rudimentary proficiency on the steel guitar is not immediate (am I preaching to the choir?). A few young kids may want to pursue it but only a few. Too much work... results may take too long. It's easier and quicker to sample a snippett of music and "Rap" to it.

The recording industry is not going to promote the Hawaiian Steel for reasons I don't need to enumerate. And the media only broadcasts what sells or what scares. Britney Spears sells (Britney Spears equals McDonalds Cheeseburger - same marketing strategy).

Spreading freedom in the Middle East... (make the public scared and they'll console themselves with a McDonalds cheeseburger while listening to the new Britney CD). You don't think that marketing strategy was well thought out?

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 30 May 2005 at 06:55 PM.]

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Gerald, the biggest influences on kids are those adults who make themselves available to them and show them some attention. It could be a family member, a teacher, a neighbor....Kids respond well to that. How many kids are musicians because of their fathers or uncles, etc? This is what it's all about--make the kids feel good without putting down the music they dig. Chances are, they'll eventually outgrow a lot of the stuff their led to by peer pressure, etc. We've all been there.

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www.mikeneer.com

[This message was edited by Mike Neer on 30 May 2005 at 06:47 PM.]

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

I agree with Gerald that Hawaiian music is not going to be sweeping the globe again. At least not anytime soon. I also find it remarkable that Hawaiian music was as popular as it was at one time. How come it was okay for whites to hang out with some brown people and not with others?

But I think something is coming around in Hawai'i. I strongly believe we have progressed beyond that era (the 70s, 80s, and 90s reggae folk rock n rollers) in which young people did everything possible to get away from the past. Those guys detested swing and steel. Or if they tried to revive it, they did a really cheesy greasy glitsy job of it.

Raiatea Helm, Hale Seabury Akaka and the Na Hoa Trio, Na Palapalai, Ale'a, Holunape (the quartet of which I am a member), Pomaika'i Lyman (Genoa's granddaughter), Keola Chan... I consider these my peers. Pretty much unknown outside of Hawai'i, but mention their names to Hawaiian musicians and they will know who you are talking about. We are all vinyl collectors, we sit by the 33 1/3 rpm and busted up 78 players and listen to how it was done, we get together for dinner and throw ideas back and forth about pre-1960 music. We realize that a lot of good can be lost if we adopt an absolutist rejection of the past. I don't think this was happening even 10 years ago with people my age. So something is bubbling.

Another example of change. It is now generally accepted amongst Hawaiian musicians of my generation that an electric bass is a piece of crap.

The feeling is if you play an electric, you do not possess the sophistication to play an upright acoustic. Nor do you have any consciousness for tone.

I believe with this resurgence in the older styles, steel guitar will be guaranteed a seat as well. I'm not saying worldwide exposure. But the steel isn't going to die out anytime soon in Hawai'i.

And this is not including all the young slack-key guitar players who are keeping that tradition alive.

Now, as far as promoting the steel guitar through the HSGA... It will upset people that I say this, but quite frankly young Hawaiians are never going to be sold on the idea that Jerry Byrd saved the steel guitar for them. Nor are they going to be interested in an organization that adheres to that notion. Anything to do with a Haole telling a Hawaiian what is best for him/her is not going to fly. That happened enough in the old days. (That is not necessarily my feeling, but what I see around me.)

I don't know how this helps the HSGA, I'm just reporting a bit on the current state of things from my vantage point.

I think Gerald goes above and beyond for the organization, and if I did as much as he does, I'd take any criticism of the website personally.

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 30 May 2005 at 07:55 PM.]

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Jeff--I've got to agree with that electric bass statement, much to the chagrin of many of my hard-working bass playing friends here in NY/NJ. Most of them know it, too, though.

[This message was edited by Mike Neer on 30 May 2005 at 09:20 PM.]

Mike Neer · From: NJ

One more thing: Gerald, this was a huge hit 2 years ago in Europe: Oua Oua

It's got all those things you like: hawaiian steel guitar and sampling with Hip/Hop beats, yo!

oj hicks · From: Springville, AL

I discerened pretty quickly what Gerald has told us in this thread...that HSGA is either not intended or equipped to perform the service of this Forum. But, that being said...Gerald, your input into the HSGA website has made it a very delightful place for those of us who love the music to visit. The posts of various members playing this great music is a joy to hear. I for one have been enriched in visiting and listening. I think it would be a real loss to the community for it to suddenly not be there. I often will have a friend sit and listen to a tune...or email the website to a friend and encourage them to listen to a tune.

Great, job, Gerald...and that is not intended as flattery, but a sincere "THANK YOU" for your efforts. PLEASE. Keep up the great work.

oj hicks

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

I agree. It's appropriate that Gerald be recognized for the enthusiasm and input that he contributes in a big way.

Between the "No Peddlers" forum, which BTW is very lenient (thanks Brad/b0b)with regards to Hawaiian themed threads that do no necessarily have steel guitar content, and Greald's contributions, it's covered extremely well and thorough.

yikes! a serious post! I better get back on my medication....

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Jeff Au Hoy writes:

quote:

How come it was okay for whites to hang out with some brown people and not with others?

My opinion: The "brown" people of Hawaii had much more to offer and American corporations grabbed all they could and many times exploited it.

Hawaii has perfect weather, a friendly and welcoming population, a Garden Of Eden environment with land to farm, steal and develop, tourism dollars, the world's most perfect beaches...

What does Avalon, Mississippi in 1931 have to offer? What does an inner city ghetto offer in terms of vacation potential and a welcoming population?

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 31 May 2005 at 07:22 AM.]

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Geesh! Didn't anyone watch the documentry "Blue Hawaii"?

ah....the meds kicked in...where's my uke?

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

STATEMENT OF PURPOSE:
The Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association is a registered, nonprofit educational corporation in the State of Hawai`i under IRS tax code 501(c)(3). Its purpose is to develop a global communications network of players and lovers of traditional Hawaiian music and to encourage the study, teaching, performance, and manufacture of the Steel Guitar. Its primary financial goal is to provide scholarship assistance through donations and bequests to steel guitar students who demonstrate the ability and intent to become accomplished performers.

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

quote:

Its primary financial goal is to provide scholarship assistance through donations and bequests to steel guitar students who demonstrate the ability and intent to become accomplished performers.

The HSGA has the money in the bank to do this. Nobody recently has applied for this money. We don't go searching the streets for potential students.

The HSGA has money for other projects as well. If you'd like to apply for some of this money, write up a well thought out, all bases covered grant proposal (just like you would submit to any major corporation or government entity), submit it to the board and it will be considered. This is for HSGA members only.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 31 May 2005 at 12:14 PM.]

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