If You Were Building A Practice Room?

Sidney Malone · From: Buna, TX

I am currently buiding a new house and have the opportunity to use a 13'x14' spare bedroom as a practice/recording room. The wall bordering the outside of the house as well as the floor & ceiling will be wood.

The 3 other walls will be insulated with blown in Rockwool and I'm looking for suggestions on a good acoustical material to cover these walls with.

I had considered using a material such as burlap to allow the sound to penetrate the insulated walls but I'm not sure something like burlap is durable enough to put on a wall. I didn't think hard surfaces on all the walls would be good due to the echo problems it could cause.

There will be a couple of other instruments (guitar/keyboard) and amps setup in this room as well as a small PA system.

About all I know about acoustics is a concrete floor & metal walls/ceilings is the worst conditions I've ever played in.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

Glenn Austin · From: Montreal, Canada

You could try Owens Corning, They make rigid fiberglass 2 x 4 panels 2 inches thick, that can be covered in material, and hung on the walls. By using fiberglass resin, you can actually make the fiberglass hard enough to put screws in for attaching wall hangers. This way the fiberglass panel requires no frame. Really works for absorbing sound in a room, and can be removed in minutes should you ever move. It can probably be ordered through a Home Depot or something like that.. I wouldn't use burlap, use a cloth that is fire resistant. There is a company called Guildford of Maine that sells this fabric. It would probably cost only a few hundred to make.

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

I did two things in my music room that have proved to be very useful and effective.
One was I used a double layer of sheetrock on the ceiling for sound insulation. I looked into the insulation thing and found nothing beats 2 layers of 5/8" sheetrock for sound insulation.
Second, I plywooded all the walls and covered them with short nap commercial carpet. This allows you to bang nails anywhere for shelves, guitar holders, etc. and if you pull them out, you don't see the nail hole.
p.s.you can NEVER have enough elec. outlets!

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

If I were designing a practice room.

Consider 2x6 or 2x8 stud walls and insulate to taste.
Put in more electrical outlets than you will ever need.
Think about a large door for getting stuff in and out.

If you will be doing recording, have A/C and heating control in the room. It can get hot with all the gear, and you will want quiet when recording.

Big refrigerator! Some neon signs, bar stools.

There are magazines for the home music, recording, home theater rooms. They talk about fabrics, flooring, etc. Acoustic Guitar Magazine has ads for practice rooms that are rooms within a room.

A simple solution to the acoustics is to have one wall reflective, and the opposite wall sound absorbent. Lively sound without the echo. Same with the floor and the ceiling. Most stages are wood floor with curtains on the sides and back.

A real practical sound absorbing method is to use a blanket draped over a rope. I have seen walls with grandma's quilt on it.

Have fun

Ron

Ron Page · From: Penn Yan, NY USA

And perhaps avoid florescent lighting. Sometimes the ballasts cause problems with hum and noise in your audio.

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HagFan

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Sidney, you've all ready got some good advice here !
a Musik room is a room in a room indeed

the double layer of sheetrock is recommended for phonic isolation. Fine for the walls.
Tony's use of plywood for holding things on to the walls is hip. instead of nailing, i screw in. (easier to take out)
Considering the weight of a a double layer of sheetrock, on the ceiling i would install an
Armstrong type suspended ceiling 60X60 cms or 60x1.20 cms on metal frame rather than sheetrock.
These are professional acoustic ceilings that cost more than an ordinary ones.
the space between the real ceiling and the Armstrong should be isolated thermic wise, and you shall have the advantage over sheetrock, by having access to that space anytime you need : to run electrik lines, plumbing, air Xtraktor and or air conditioning, etc...
Lighting can be installed in the ceiling
if you want to have enough elektric plugs you'll have to run 3/6lines in your Musik room
how many plugs do you put on a line in the US ? (5/8 here)
1/2 lines for lighting 10A
1 line for heating 10/16A
1 line for that fridge ? 16/20A
2/3/4 lines for the cookin'Musik appliances
16/20A
Wood floor is hip. No Tiling huh ?!
Mobile phonic isolated partitions or panels can be handy too. (too put around a drum kit)
Curtains, rugs, are good too.
eggs cartons might be funky, but they work fine + cost 0
Budget's the Boss...
whatever don't hurry Sydney. Get all the
advice, estimates, and ideas you can.
LOL

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Some years back, even a "dimmer" light control created sound problems; hummmm; static, like the tubular lighting does.

Billy Woo · From: Los Angeles, CA, USA

I recall a product called "Sonex" which greatly reduced noise from coming in or out. It was a thick pattern similar to the cardboard egg holders which in the old days also served to soundproof a room. You may wish to do a search on Ebay and might find this material in abundance and possibly reasonable as well.. Good Luck as my studio is sound proof as well but I still shut down at 10:00 at night for the sake of the neighbors (at least for drums and loud guitar work)..Good Luck

Mark Ardito · From: Chicago, IL, USA

How about a connection to high-speed internet in the room. That way you could have the computer set up in there to read the forum and surf the web and practice. Maybe make a entertainment corner with a little TV/VCR combo unit as well.

Mark

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Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com

Bob Carlson · From: Surprise AZ.

Frist thing to remember.....nothing absorbs sound. Sound reflects off things like a curtian much less than a wall, but nothing will absorb it.

I don't have my recorder hooked up in my new music room (12X14)down hear yet, but it's all plaster board and blinds on the window so i'm in no hurry because my guitars don't need much echo or reverb. When I do hook it up, I will hang a blanket and put the mic in front of it.

The gentleman above who stated....a stage usually has a hardwood floor and curtians on the walls is on the right track. Carpet on the floor would help also.

Also run a seperate ground for each outlet.

Bob.

[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 18 September 2002 at 11:48 AM.]

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

First (from my experience) make it accessible from your house instead of having to "run across the yard during the storm" to access it! (I was always too sleepy to go there...until it took away my patio cover) then it was already too close! but back to the thread.....it would be a great practise room...no one to interupt! Go for it! [URL=http://www.genejones.com

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 18 September 2002 at 11:38 AM.]

Gary Lee Gimble · From: Fredericksburg, VA.

A practice room should include but not limited to the following items. A Claret decanter and appropriate Lismore stemware to accommodate your evenings libation of choice.

Gary Lee

Sidney Malone · From: Buna, TX

I knew I was asking the right people!! I think I've got the electrical end figured out as well as Mixer/Stereo/Computer/TV/Sattelite etc... My previous house had dimmers and flouresent lights and yes they both cause noise, especially the dimmers.

My wife is an avid Quilter so hanging the quilts is very appealing to me. This room is inside the house so all the AC/Heating is taken care of.

There's been a lot of good info here and approaches I never thought of. Anyone else please throw in your .02 worth, it is much appreciated.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

I built a room behind the house that my now ex-wife lives in and did a ton of research as I was going to use it as a recording studio. 2 primary considerations were necessary- sound getting out and sound echoing inside. For sound getting out I used a couple layers of Celotex (wallboard-like 4x8 sheets)on the outside of the studs before
the stucco was applied, then used standard insulation, then inside I used sound channel between 2 layers of drywall. Sound channel is inexpensive and isolates the room quite nicely. For inside echos I used inexpensive 1/2" carpet pad on 2 walls (not opposing walls) and covered them with burlap and trimmed with stained and routed 1x2" pine. Then stand in the room and clap to see where the echos are in order to see if more panels of pad/burlap are needed. In my case I also slanted the ceiling about 15 degrees- in your case probably just covering the floor will be sufficient. Also you should consider using a solid core door with insulation around the edges. I'm glad to give some references if you'd like to further explore it. Remember ventilation because it can get hot!

Jim West · Posted 18 Sep 2002 12:35 pm

Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

How about getting Buddy Emmons to live there!

[This message was edited by Jim West on 18 September 2002 at 01:35 PM.]

Tim Harr · From: Dunlap, Illinois

How about a separate door to load in and out of. This would prevent dragging and/or rolling cases through the house.

Also, if you plan to record there how about a light that blinks when the phone is ringing..

ideas....

Patrick Ickes · From: Upper Lake, CA USA

One of the things I did was wire all the outlets to the same side of the bus. That way, there's no potential diference between a mic and your guitar=long blue spark from lip to mic!
also, put music room on opposite side of house as bedroom.
Many construction/HVAC/building code books list the sound insulating values of different materials.
Pat

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Don't tell your wife where it is!!!

seldomfed · From: Colorado

I built a commercial studio in my barn on the cheap about 10 years ago. Did a lot of reading about studio construction and acoustics - I'd suggest checking out some of those texts in the library or from amazon.com
(like "Sound Studio Construction on a Budget"
by F. Alton Everest and others of that type) before you buy a bunch of 'sound treatment' material you may not need.

Sonically - You don't have to go hog wild for a practice space unless you intend to have loud bands over with drums and amps at all hours. Actually simple is good, because if you start putting up Sonex (tm), egg cartons, blankets, carpet etc. your going to have a very dead space. All that extra material sucks up the highs and mids and your left with a room that is not fun to play in. Ideal acoustic performance spaces don't un-naturally kill frequencies - for performance you want natural sounds to exist and bounce and do all the things they do. The problem comes from doing it in a square box! (clap your hands in an empty small room) You DO want to limit sound from entering and exiting! AND you want to control unwanted sound events like strange echos and standing waves AND, you want to have a comfortable relaxing space with lots of natural light. I'm not talking about recording control rooms - that's a different design goal - this is performance and recording of sound.

So some things to consider are;
* You can absorb sound, and stop sound but it costs money. Step into an anechoic chamber! In the home - you have to consider what frequencies you want to limit the transmission of, and the hardest ones to limit are bass. Think of those damn boom box cars! Bass freqs. are 'the enemey'. Low guitar notes, drums, bass guitars etc. The thing that stops bass frequencies is mass and decoupling. Highs won't penetrate normal walls too much - if at all. (just listen to your TV from another room - what do you hear?) hence the excellent suggestions already made for double layers of 5/8" sheet rock. Better is to use different thicknesses, 1 of 1/2" and 1 of 5/8". However to really do it you also need to consider various double wall construction methods. Studios build rooms inside rooms to eliminate vibrations from being transimitted between walls!! If you are building a house, NOW IS THE TIME - it won't come again. See if you can get double wall construction included for that room. It will prob. add about .25/month to your mort. payment over 30 years.
* avoid too much carpet etc. - it will suck up high frequencies and deaden your space un-naturally. Just plan on a normal room. If you have a little furniture in there, some drapes etc. that may be all you need. Start simple, then add.
* instead of double layers of rock, you can also try 'z channel' mounting for a single layer, it will also help remove energy from low freqs. to some degree. Great for ceilings.
* Drop ceilings don't cut low frequencies that much. The dead air space does help and if it's well insulated it helps, but I think they are ugly and you loose ceiling height. Check out all those little holes in drop ceilings! They are there for a reason - to grab freq. with little wavelengths (aka highs) - if you put one in front of a kick drum an turn your back - you won't even know it's there. Low freqs. have wave lengths of up to 40'! - that's why they are hard to stop. All this little foam stuff, egg crates etc. won't do it. They do however act as diffusion material to change and elim. reflections and have to be applied for specific reasons. Sonex, Auralex, looks cool - but they are different sizes for a reason.
* you can build various 'sound traps' that will trap unwanted frequencies, easy and decorative. (hemholtz resonators etc. - ref. those books)
* If you carpet the floor (like the house) - then don't add too much stuff, if anything, to the walls! You've prob. already got enough high/mid. freq. absorbers in the room! (remember low freq. are the enemy)
* I put my elec. outlets (lots of them) about 3' off the floor. I hate bending over to plug stuff in. Makes it nice for amps, racks, desks etc. Next time they'll be higher so they're above table height.
* you can buy pro dimmers that elim. hum, but they cost. I just use low watt bulbs in floor and table lamps - I like indirect lighting. But a florescent light is nice too when you want to work on something and be able to see really well.
* non parallel surfaces will help with a lot of those standing wave and comb filter echos you hear in empty rooms. Risky if you want to resell the house later, but easy to do. Heck, most new houses aren't plumb anyway

* higher ceilings are great - the more space you have the better!!!
* modem, lan, elec., phone and cable of course
* lots of storage and shelf space if you can get it in there
* wider doors for loading stuff in and ideally a separate entrance. My little practice room in the house is a room off the garage - people can come and go without going thru the house. Cool if you want to teach.
* skylights are cool!
* wood floors are wonderful.
* Solid core doors, or ideally a 'sound lock' arrangement. ie. two doors separated by an air space.
* avoid the basement if you can!
* The perfect location for a room like this for me is on the other side of the garage.
(ie. house->garage->rehearsal space). Unfortunately mine is (house->R.S.->garage) You'd have dead air between you and the house (I do have a 'sound lock' at least), you can load your stuff from the car to the studio easy!, there is decoupling which eliminates sound transmission, friends can come and go easy, your workbench can be in the garage, extra storage in the garage, and if you double rock the walls, and have good double pane windows etc. the family and neighbors prob. wont' hear you at all. Could market as a home office for resale value in the future.

Anyway - Have fun!! Many envy what you are about to do. I do!
Chris

disclaimer: I'm not an acoustic engineer

references: http://arts.ucsc.edu/ems/music/tech_background/TE-14/teces_14.html http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_turnkey_acoustic_treatment/ http://www.sweetwater.com/publications/sweetnotes/sn-latewinter99/page15.html http://www.auralex.com/

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"We can't afford to let Nature run wild" - govt. offical - Alaska www.seldomfed.com

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Wayne Cox · From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.

Take all the above advice and put it in a room about twice the size of the one you have!

W.C.

Sidney Malone · From: Buna, TX

Thank you all so very much for you advice!!! There's a lot of great (experienced) ideas here. I will probably pull something from each one as I get this room set up.

Thanks Again,

Sidney

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