Celtic or Scottish sounds

Bill C. Buntin · Posted 23 Mar 2002 6:31 pm

VIZ,

You can email me at ceol_beag@msn.com

I play Highland Bagpipe and have experimented with lots of different ideas for steel guitar and bagpie with Celtic Music. And Bagpipe with commercial country.

THE MAIN PROBLEM is reeds and tuning the chanter to sound good with a band.

The Octaves that the Highland pipe drones have in relation to each other are of course just octaves. The bass or Big Drone being 1 octave below the Tenor drones. The 2 tenor drones of course are one octave below the LOW "A" of the Pipe chanter. The Pipe Chanter intervals are unique on the Highland Bagpipe. Each note making its' own destinctive "Harmony" with the Drones.

I have experimented with using two open strings an octave apart while playing some traditional Celtic music with Pedal steel. Much like a Mountain Dulcimer. Part of the problem is the droning effect doesn't seem to be so effective due to the sustain of steel guitar. But I've got a new experiment with a different guitar and tuning going on right now. So email me and we can discuss it in detail and not take up space on the forum.

Interestingly enough. I've been playing with arrangements of tradional Highland folk tunes and incorporated a Country/Hawaiian style steel guitar into the Scottish folk music. A Scottish Ballad with E9 Pedal Steel sounds pretty cool really. Course I don't do it much justice. I would like to hear some of my traditional Scottish music with someone like John Hughey doing the Steel parts. I'm surprised someone like Alex Beaton hasn't added a Pedal guitar on some of his recordings. I told him one time at the Highland Games in Arlington TX. that I thought Pedal Steel would sound really cool with it. He looked at me sort of funny. But if You've ever met Alex, then you already know what a character he is.

Glad there are other folks interested in this idea.. I thought I was the only one.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I think E9 would be the tuning to use on that sort of thing. Some of the voicings,drones and so forth are actually very akin to Cajun modal stuff.

Mike Sweeney · From: Nashville,TN,USA

Michael,
I agree with you on the e-9th.
On my "Pure And Simple Country" c.d. I cut the Irish ballad "Red Is The Rose" and with the help of Lloyd Green I put an accapella part on the front simulating a bagpipe complete with 2 drone notes. And no I didn't stack the parts.
Mike

Pat Burns · From: Branchville, N.J. USA

...Viz, funny you should bring this up...I was just asking my teacher on Tuesday night to suggest what kind of steel might go well with the 6 string Irish guitar open tuning DADGAD...the suggestion was play around neutral chords, leaving out the 3rds that create majs and minors..and that might be best accomplished on the E=9 neck with B pedal..

...I think PSG could sound great with the droning background...it's what I often hear in my head..(along with the voices)..

George McLellan · From: Duluth, MN USA

Bill Buntin, I should have picked up on the "Big Music", I know for sure now I'm getting senile. Alex did use pedal steel on "Shoals of Herring" for sure, you can hear the notes pedaled in very clearly.

I can't think of Mr. Thomson's first name from up Nova Scotia way (forumite & piper). He sent me a tape of him doing a few of the tunes. I don't remember how he said he did it, but I'm sure he'll pick up on this thread and give some really interesting input.

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo

[This message was edited by George Mc Lellan on 24 March 2002 at 07:01 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Ol' Ralph Mooney was great at playing E9th with open drone notes. Listen to some of his stuff with Buck or Waylon it'll knock you out.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

Roy Thomson · From: Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada

Like George says...I took a "whack" at the bagpipe simulation. It can turn heads and bring a smile. Never fails.
I use E9th. and with a pumping of the A pedal (Emmons Set-up)for the drone effect
you can play your melody on top.
Check your email Viz I sent you a clip of The Green Hills of Tyron ( Scottish Soldier).
If you want any more info give me a holler.

Roy

Bill C. Buntin · Posted 24 Mar 2002 6:01 pm

George, Wait till I see Alex. I did not know that but I don't guess I've heard that cut. Actually "Ceol Beag" means "Little Music" which is associated with Jigs, Reels, Strathspeys and Marchs etc." "Ceol Mhor" is "Big Music" which is of course the classical form of Highland Bagpipe (Piobaraech) Music.

Roy, I got your email and thanks for all the input. Glad to have met another PIPER on the Forum. I was wondering if there were any.

Since there seems to be some interest in Bagpipe type sounds and music. It might interest everyone to know that there is a movement in the piping world toward a more "Diatonic" or I should say "Ionian" sound in the competing pipe bands. The traditional Pipers don't like what is happening. Apparantly, these new ideas are changing the way pipe bands are tuning. They are using synthetic equipment and altering the holes on the pipe chanters to create a true diatonic major (Ionian) scale. I don't like it either. When I was in competition, part of what made it competition was your skills as a piper in the traditional sense at being able to play and maintain and tune the instrument still in its 18th century form. Using synthetics could be OK but altering the pipes away from their original scale is BAD. Thats' what makes them sound like Highland Pipes. I for one, ain't changing.

This is why a simulation with any stringed instrument is just barely a simulation. Highland Pipes have their own "Mode". The closest classical mode is Mixolydian, but even then its not exact. A properly set up and in "Tune" Highland Pipe is unique in every sense of the word. Thats' why most lay people think Pipes sound weird. Thats' too why people are either drawn to Pipe music or offended by it. Hard to play anywhere without drawing up an audience and then spending 2 hours in a piping clinic with a bunch of folks just "wanting to Know". Same bunch of folks that ask you all those dumb questions about your steel guitar when your playing out.

If I knew Steel guitar as well as I once knew Piping, I might could get a good gig!

thanks for a new and interesting thread. Lots of fun. Best Regards.

wayne yakes md · From: denver, colorado

Vibrato Records just released Mike G. Smith's "Dreams of India" CD. One of the new songs on it is VERY Celtic/Scottish/Irish tune called "Creek Walk". Email me wayne.yakes@riaco.com or call me 303 788 4280, for a copy at $15 each. Mike just took steel guitar to new level!!

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Viz, e-mail me your address and I'll send you a tape that shows how really well the steel works in contemporary Celtic music. As others have said, the E9th does a nice job (probably since this music is mostly just majors and minors). One easy method to get an "old sound" is to just use the A&B pedals, eliminate the volume pedal, and use a small (or glass) bar, so as to limit the sustain. It works surprisingly well!

Mike Fereday · From: Newbury, Berkshire, England

Viz

You can reach Gerry Hogan at [email]hoganmusic@compuserve.com [/email]and possibly gerry@hoganmusic.freeserve.co.uk .

Regards

Mike

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