| Author |
Topic: Steel player w/ Brian Adams(!?) on Leno show 2-27-02 east co |
Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
|
Posted 2 Mar 2002 2:42 pm |
|
| My point exactly Jeff. This is not a Nazi Concentration camp Bruce. I respect everyones opinion on this forum, whether I disagree with it or not. I was a staff writer for Steel Guitar World Magazine for eight years. I play every weekend with a band that is booked six months in advance and will be opening for Martina McBride, Brad Paisley, and others in front of ten thousand people in June. I have been playing for thirty years. I am entitled to my opinion. I listen to others and thats why I participate in this forum. You are not the only card carrying expert Bruce. |
|
|
 |
Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
|
|
|
|
Robert
From:
Chicago
|
Posted 3 Mar 2002 7:56 am
|
|
Jason Odd:
I'm going to take a poke at you, since you were using my own words in your post - I guess you were taking a poke at me. My opinions on "alt country" are just that - my opinions. I've been down this road with yourself before - I know you like alt. country. I don't. I live in Chicago - supposed hotbed of alt. country. Why am I a geezer if I say: "Jason, you're right - they either sound like early Jackson Browne or a bad '70s 'southern rock' band"? I'll tell you what, Jason, I didn't like Jackson Browne in the '70's - I sure don't want to hear a bad re-hash of him today. I've been to some of these alt. country shows where you couldn't hear the steel guitar - many times! And when you DID hear it - you wished you hadn't - like two cats on a hot night in old San Juan! I guess my point was this: if the instrument is there for looks alone, why bother? As for Ryan Adams having "crud coming out of his ears", well that's just your opinion, innit? BTW - why more "pros" don't post here - they're too busy practicing scales, which is what I should be doing now . . . wood-shedding with the metronome! And Johan, don't sell yourself short: I'm sure you're at least as good as Bucky's little toenail. Yuck!
Rob Yale [This message was edited by Robert on 03 March 2002 at 02:32 PM.] [This message was edited by Robert on 03 March 2002 at 02:54 PM.] |
|
|
|
Dave Van Allen
From:
Doylestown, PA , US , Earth
|
Posted 3 Mar 2002 1:58 pm
|
|
Kim:
It is not my intention to "send down" anyone...
just trying to interject some levity and perspective... to try and break the wicked spiral these threads seem to start descending into, dangling participles and all...
speaking one's mind without all the facts is a proud tradition; as is refusing to admit one has done so; as is stubbornly maintaining a position in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary 
--------------------------------------------
"it's just music, man. It's playing clean and looking for the pretty notes." C.Parker |
|
|
|
Steve Stallings
From:
Houston/Cypress, Texas
|
Posted 3 Mar 2002 3:36 pm
|
|
HEY!!!
don't be dissing my man Jackson!
(a joke.... I still like DVA's initial retort....but hey, David Lindley defined the rock lap steel idiom. I hear folks trying to cop his sound and licks all the time)
Seriously, I was trying to recall just how many times this threads content had been hashed out here since the days of the original forum. Heck, back then, we really knew how to have fun!....I think a lot of this stuff was on the old off topic forum, back when Nick, Les, and Tom roamed the halls with their acerbic wit. Ahh...those were the days. uhhmmm......I forgot what I was talking about....Never mind
------------------
Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas
|
|
|
|
Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
|
Posted 3 Mar 2002 5:14 pm
|
|
Robert, last week I saw a alt-country band and they were magnificent, acoustic bass, the singer played semi-acoustic rhythm guitar and Charlie Owen was on lap steel, he was a killer!
The drummer was there, but he took the night off and socailised.
Personally I'd like to see Maurice Frawley & The Working Class Ringoes on TV, but it ain't ever gonna happen.
Alt-country is a wide spectrum, I personally would include Dale Watson, Freakwater, Uncle Tupelo and Big Sandy under that name, why??.. because they are the alternative to what is billed as country now.
(Watson has been called retro-country, but I consider that an insulting term.)
Robert, I wasn't really taking a poke at you, you.. Retcop and others like y'all blend into a mass for me. Sometimes I have to go back and look at your names because you write similar things and seem to think so much along the same lines.
Actually, I'm not a big Jackson Browne fan either, but then I never really cared for Jim Reeves either.. perhaps I should make a post about that?
..does anyone know if Jim Reeves had bad teeth,? I'd sure like to comment on that. |
|
|
|
Kim West
From:
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
|
Posted 3 Mar 2002 8:39 pm
|
|
| dva--all is cool. i thoroughly enjoyed your archived post. read it and loved it. just that i've been a public defender for twenty years, and the reference to numbers and humorous responses was just too much like the old prison joke stories. and to be "sent down" is a reference to being sent down to prison. that's all. it was my attempt at a humorous response, but then i guess not everyone who reads this has been sent down to prison, and therefore familiar with the term. anyway, dave, all is cool with me. i've been enjoying the emotional give and take. what a wonderful way to get to know the people behind the posts. (and now i've blown MY cover!) |
|
|
|
Kim West
From:
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
|
Posted 3 Mar 2002 8:52 pm
|
|
| well-THAT'S wierd: i sent off a response, and it seems to have disappeared. anyway, to summarize: dva-no problem, i read and enjoyed your archived post and laughed heartily. being "sent down" is a reference to my line of work, as a public defender for 20 years, wherein my clients get sent down (every now and then), and they tell jokes by number. maybe funny, maybe not. but i certainly did not mean anything negative, dave. i have been treated VERY KINDLY by everyone here at the forum, both here and by email (thank you, ). again, no problem, dave. sorry about the misunderstanding. |
|
|
|
Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 7:40 am
|
|
Late reply..been away from my computer:
Mr Hatton said: "If Bucky Baxter chooses to put himself in the situation he did on Leno, than he better be able to take the critism of other steelers."
Why should there be any criticism? And, "puts himself in the situation he did"...well, let's see:
>phone rings<
"Hello?"
"Hey this is Ryan, I got a slot on the Leno show, are you available to play?"
"Uh, let me think...the Leno show.... Gee, I don't know if I want that gig, especially if you're gonna play one of those rock songs. It might upset some of my steel guitar brethren. Nope, I'm gonna have to pass on the Leno show, thanks for askin' anyway."
Yeah, right. |
|
|
|
Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 7:44 am
|
|
Retcop:
Yes, there's an alt rock. Spear-headed in the early 90s by Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc...
I suppose there probably is an alt jazz and an alt blues. Just hasn't been "officially" termed so. Whenever there is a mainstream, there is an alternative. |
|
|
|
nick allen
From:
France
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 8:11 am
|
|
First, and MOST IMPORTANT: I am NOT the Nick whom Steve Stallings refers to as roaming the halls of Off-Topic"...
Second: All hail to Bruce Bouton for what SHOULD have been the final word in this thread...
Third: All hail to Dave Van Allen, whose referenced list SHOULD be the final word in quite a number of threads... 
Fourth: If you don't like it, don't listen - it's as simple as that. But - many of us here are (regular 6-string) guitar players as well... do the "critics" get all excited and disgusted every time there is someone on TV playing 6-string behind someone they don't like? whew, must get tiring if you do... keyboards? ... same thing.
Jason Odd obviously has appreciation for a VERY wide range of music, from Western swing to alt.country to punk-rock (if I've understood correctly). I suspect a lot of the music he likes, I would hate... but so what? a lot of other things I like, and he's still (at least) one of the two most historically knowledgeable people on this forum (excluding, maybe, those who actually lived/created the history!)
Another example: Bob Hoffnar, clearly very knowledgeable, approaches the instrument with his brain and his heart, and another whose posts make very worthwhile reading - I have a sneaking suspicion that I wouldn't like a lot of the music he is involved in - but I can still learn a great deal from his posts, and he's still probably 183 times the musician I will ever be...
Nick
(why do we keep allowing ourelves to get into these discussions? when I say we... you know who you are! ) [This message was edited by nick allen on 04 March 2002 at 08:12 AM.] |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 8:22 am
|
|
Anytime any creative person... musician, writer, painter, etc... puts something out for the general public to share, he or she opens him or herself up to criticism. That includes Bucky, Kevin, everyone on this thread, and yours truly. If you can't handle criticism, stay in the local bar band scene, because regardless of how well you play, SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE is gonna be critical.
What is important to me, however, is how justified is the criticism. IMHO, the fact that he played a style of music some folks don't particularly care for is not justifiable criticism to level at a picker. Musicians don't have a choice as to what music the artist plays. They're just hired to make the artist sound "better" and that judgement is in the eyes of the artist.
Baxter is a professional musician, with a great resume, who took a high profile gig, one of many he's had. Would anyone on this forum refuse a gig on the Leno show, or would they brag to high heaven about it and consider it a high point of their careers? I guess some would if they didn't like the music being performed. That's a professional career decision, of course. And an ill-advised one, IMHO.
I still, after 40 years, refer back to a column Pete Seeger wrote in Sing Out! magazine back in 1962. Paraphrasing Pete, "Be very generous with other picker's music, and be very critical of your own music. Because to be sure, one day the tables will be turned on you."
------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
|
|
|
|
Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 8:49 am
|
|
Hey Nick Allen, never heard of you man. It would be a cold day in hell before Bruce Bouton's opinion (or anyone elses)on anything would be the final answer on this forum! Like I said this is not a Nazi Concentration camp. I agree with you Herb. Bucky is a good player, but this is not about him as a good player. Its about a performance on Leno's show and people's subjective opinions. Its not personal.
I have turned down recording opportunities
in the past because the artist sucked and I didn't want to be associated with the project. I got the usual phone calls from friends asking why. Some people will take any job for the money or exposure. I won't. Anyone who knows me knows that. I wouldn't play with Ryan Adams. I'd sell my stuff first.
[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 04 March 2002 at 08:51 AM.] |
|
|
|
Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 9:03 am
|
|
Kevin, of course you've never heard of me. I'm just a non-pedaler playing rock/pop in small bars and clubs in Chicago & suburbs, where there are few steel guitars. (whoops, you edited your post, guess you got some names turned around)
I have to agree with Herb's comments on players opening themselves up for criticism on the high-profile gigs. That point is well-taken. BUT, check back on this thread and count how many posts actually address Bucky's playing on that particular song. Not many. Outnumbered by comments on teeth.
A little speculation: Who knows, maybe Ryan Adams made a bad call and switched the song they were gonna play at the last minute. [This message was edited by Chris Walke on 04 March 2002 at 09:04 AM.] |
|
|
|
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 9:28 am
|
|
"...is there an alt rock? an alt Jazz? an alt Blues? an alt Oprera? an alt Classical?"
FWIW...
Alt Rock is usually reffered to as "Indie Rock", which stands for "Independant" Rock, meaning that a band has CD out on an Independant Label, and the music doesn't fit any current radio play formats so it's hard to get picked up by a mojor label.
"Alt Jazz" is often reffered to as "Acid Jazz" and again, it ain't Kenny G so it's not on the radio.
Alt Blues?... Often refferd to as Blues Rock, Funk Blues, ect...
It aint B.B. King so it's not on the radio, but it falls into the blues catagory.
Alt Opera?...
I don't know, but one time I took a blind date to the opera...
Nobody would leave untill she sang!?!
Go figer?!
Alt Classical?... Have you heard Bob Hoffners new CD?!
|
|
|
|
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 10:38 am
|
|
Not a problem, James.
Stop by the Sierra booth at the Dallas show.
Looking forward to meeting you.
Pete |
|
|
|
Craig Stock
From:
Westfield, NJ USA
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 2:30 pm
|
|
Hey Chris, Maybe the Leno people told HIM to change the song HE wanted to play  . Who knows, no one has even posted what the song was.
BTW, I was listening to the Graham Parsons tribute CD Grievous Angel today, and Ryan's version of 'A Song for you" with Whiskeytown and Mike Daly is a highpoint of the disc for me. I think some of the guys out there ought to listen more to him, he's going places, of course that's my opinion
------------------
Regards, Craig
|
|
|
|
Brian Wetzstein
From:
Billings, MT, USA
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 2:52 pm
|
|
This thread upsets me. I did not see the performance, but I am guessing the song was Ryan's latest release "Answering Bell"(track 3 on Gold). I am a new steel player. I became interested in the psg because of groups like Whiskeytown and Uncle Tupelo etc... Now that I am learning, I have bought albums by Charley Pride, Ray Price, Buck Owens, and tons of stuff I may have never been exposed to without bieng introduced to the steel guitar. Music is subjective just like "which guitar has the best tone". Play the stuff you like, and forget about the stuff you dont like. Who really cares about what type of music the steel is bieng played in? Aren't you happy there are still people like me who are interested in learning?
If you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all. Or try turning down the volume on the tv and just look at the pretty guitar and imagine how it would sound if it were you on Leno. |
|
|
|
Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 2:56 pm
|
|
Hey Craig, perhaps you are right! Or perhaps they were each playing a different song. !
Speaking of Return of the Grievous Angel, I like the Whiskeytown tune, but it's Emmylou and Sheryl Crow that crushes my heart. Such killer harmony. That's a great album, instrumentally and vocally. Oh, but I digress... |
|
|
|
Theresa Galbraith
From:
Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 3:04 pm
|
|
Brian,
Welcome to this forum. Please continue to learn music! Theresa |
|
|
|
Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 3:17 pm
|
|
| Herb, if I ever wanted someone to critique my playing, you would be at the top of the list! Thats not a$$ kissing, thats just a fact. |
|
|
|
Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 5:16 pm
|
|
Wow, actually there has been some pretty amazing stuff written here on this topic, I generally took it on as a crusade as I though some of the original critique was at the mental level of a 14 year old. (it sucks, and the dude is ugly and crap type approach).
There has been some real thought provoking stuff added here, and I do quite often forget that I'm a 31 year old who grew up listening to The Beatles, Dolly Parton and the Sex Pistols, Abba and the Police.. among others.
Retcop also brings up an interesting point, you mention that you've been listening to jazz for 35 years, but never heard the term 'Acid Jazz'.. well I don't doubt the fact that you listen to jazz, but what is your cut-off point?
I assume you don't listen to any new jazz, or if it's a new release it's by an older artist who's still recording.
The term Acid Jazz, I dunno, I've been hearing it for years.
Mind you I'm just guessing here, you could be seeing new jazz outfits and performers quite often.
Some terms... Country, hillbilly, Country & western, folk, Western-Bop, Rockabilly, Old Timey, Bluegrass, Newgrass, Folk-country, country-rock, progressive country, No-depression, twang core, retro-country, country-punk and alterna country.
That's over eighty years of terms for various types of country related music, and as various people have pointed out, there's someone out there that thought Buck Owens was just electric junk in the 1960s and that Bill Monroe played too fast back in the late 1930s.
I suspect that I have a lot of music in my collection that would drive people nuts, heck there's stuff in there, that at times I can hardly believe I own it myself!
There's other things I personally (thus this is simply my personal opinion and taste) believe about music and music appreciation, and that is that it's simply not enough to be a technically proficient musician, talent and ability is often lost due to the artist relying soley on those skills.
I always recall a guitarist friend of mine (who's very talented), was sitting watching a 'video hits' style show in early 1992 and complained that he could have come up with the riff for Nirvana's hit 'Smells Like Teen Spirit," it was so simple... anyone could have done it, he added.
I turned and added, "Yeah, but you didn't did you."
|
|
|
|
Craig Stock
From:
Westfield, NJ USA
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 7:16 pm
|
|
I think most people always identify with and like most the music they listened to in there years under age 20. I find myself referencing everything to that time period. Even if I didn't listen to it then, I like stuff from that period. I appreciate and like music from many other time periods and styles too, and I have a wide range of tastes.
The majority of people though stick to what they grew up on and never go outside of that.
------------------
Regards, Craig
|
|
|
|
Dave Horch
From:
Frederick, Maryland, USA
|
Posted 4 Mar 2002 8:40 pm
|
|
Okay all you swingin’ dicks… Let this be the end of this…
First: I did not start this post to put down Bucky’s performance. Re-read the top post: I thought he did a great job! Some other folks might have gone somewhere else, but not me! In fact, I liked his work so much that I wanted to get the message out to folks on the west coast that a great viewing opportunity was coming their way in a few hours. That’s why I posted.
Second: I will apologize (again!) for not getting the artist’s name right. As I said, I was practicing my steel with the TV on in the background, volume turned down low. Leno said “Please welcome…” And I thought he said Brian Adams, not Ryan Adam (or whomever). I’ve never heard of Ryan Adam so my brain translated into a performer who I had heard of and I made an incorrect assumption.
Third: The artist’s (whomever he was) performance, presentation, etc., simply did not appeal to me (but the steel playing sure did!). My original comments still stand. If you are a big fan of this dude then great… Knock yourself out! I personally was not made a fan by the performance I saw. That’s an opinion folks! Your mileage may vary. Everyone has likes and dislikes… Yes, I am a rocker (among other tastes), if I have to admit. I’ve logged many miles in those shoes! If Jason thinks I have a 14 year old mentality then… hmmm… he might be right! Sorry if I put down one of your favorite dudes – it happens. Drink a Fosters and chill…
Fourth: Yes, Bruce nailed it.
Finally: The steel guitar is one of the most wonderfully expressive and challenging instruments ever devised by “musician”-kind. I am personally very very happy to have taken some time to have learned to wrestle the beast a little bit. Hmmm… Someone please put that on my headstone.
Jason... dude... Abba? Wuzup with that?! (sorry, paybacks)
Best, -Dave
------------------
Mullen (See! No "S") D-10
Photo page [This message was edited by Brian Adams on 04 March 2002 at 08:55 PM.] [This message was edited by Dave Horch on 04 March 2002 at 08:58 PM.] |
|
|
|
Robert
From:
Chicago
|
Posted 5 Mar 2002 6:41 am
|
|
Jason:
"Acid Jazz" is a term I first heard in about 1989. A lot of what is being dubbed "Acid Jazz" are old recordings by the likes of Grant Green, Billy Butler, Larry Young, etc. I don't think the term was in use when many of these recordings were being made. There are too many monikers in use to describe music "types" today - meaningless, and over-lapping; they seem to be more about creating exclusive niches for musicians than they are about some accurate description of what's "in the grooves". Of course, like everything else I ever have posted or will post in the future - that is strictly my opinion.
Rob Yale[This message was edited by Robert on 05 March 2002 at 06:45 AM.] |
|
|
|
