Playing steel and standard guitar in the same song

Mark Zinns · From: Oakland CA

I've been finding that the more new songs we write in our band, the more I'm asked to play a steel solo and a standard solo in the same song (mostly rock and blues). Aside from having a rig like Jr. Brown, any suggestions on how to make a smooth transition between the two instruments? I hate siting at my pedal steel with a guitar in my lap.

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Sierra U-12
Sho-Bud D-12
Fender Dual Professional

JB Arnold · From: Longmont,Co,USA (deceased)

Dick Meis plays like that all the time, and he's GREAT at it. switches back and forth with ease. He keeps a strat slung over his shoulder as he plays the steel. I have pics, will post later, but that's how he does it. he plays steel with a flat pick too.
John

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

I used to try it but I got too picky about tone to attempt it now. Years ago, I played a thru a Fender Vibrosonic amp which worked on both instruments, but I still had to plug and unplug to switch over. An A+B box would make that easier. That still was a compromise as the EQ and reverb settings were different for pedal steel and for guitar.

Now I use a rack rig for steel with a Tubeworks preamp which has the "steel mod" and a EV 15" speaker. This rig really doesn't cut it for guitar. It does, however, sound great for steel, the best I've come up with yet.

I broke down a few weeks ago and got a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe amp (40W) for guitar. Wow, there's the sound! Has a built in distortion so you don't need your Tube Screamer; the only thing I add is a delay--the Fender reverb is superb. I know all you vintage freaks will scoff at the modern mass-produced tube amp but this works for me.

--John Russell

John O Keeffe · From: Co Waterford Ireland

It's quite a difficult thing to switch fast unless like JB said you play both with a flatpick(I don't) I find it always takes quit a few seconds to switch and I have to make a slight adjustment to my amp too...but I get by most of the time.But I would never be able to go from a guitar solo to a steel solo smoothly it takes too long to put on the picks and change the amp setting for that!!..JOHN

SCOTT TYLER · From: NEWINGTON,CONN.,U.S.A.

One thought might be to buy a "Gracie" brand guitar stand which will hold your electric guitar in the playing position at all times.(Height adjustable, of course.) This would allow you to jump up to the guitar, play your fills/rides, and sit back down at the steel without missing a beat. If you play both instruments thru one amp, then you really should get an A-B box to make the signal changes smooth also. Just a thought....

Mark Zinns · From: Oakland CA

I thought that the gracie stand might help. I have resigned to the fact that I will have to lug the fender deville for the guitar and the peavey for the steel. Changing from one instrument to another seems like it's possible to do well only under the best circumstances.

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Sierra U-12
Sho-Bud D-12
Fender Dual Professional

Terry Downs · From: Wylie, TX US

Mark,
I have been doing this for years. First of all, I have never been able to use one amp for both. For my taste, there is too much difference between what a steel needs for amplification and what guitar needs.

I use many combinations of picks. Sometimes I use finger picks on both steel and guitar, flat pick on both (rare), and do the old switcharoo. If I need to play a guitar lead and steel lead in the same passage, I'm usually forced to use the same picks. If a verse or chours seperates the two fills or solos, I will always switch picks. I can pull my finger picks off my right hand by balling up a fist on my right hand and using my right thumb to slide off the finger picks. Then I use the forefinger and middle finger on the right hand to slide off the thumb pick. This is done in a downward motion toward the shelf of the steel for depositing the picks. This leaves my right hand to simultaneously lay down the bar and pick up the flat pick. After the right hand if free, I hand my right hand the flat pick with the left hand. I can generally do this in less than 1.5 seconds. It takes practice to do it smoothly and not drop anything.

I had one song where the steel played the first half of the solo and the guitar played the last half. I could not use the same picks so I had to transition picks. I modified the last lick of the steel solo to remain in one bar position and let the notes sustain while engaging pedals and levers to make the rest of the notes. I changed to a flat pick during this time. In that case, I had the guitar volume already on max so I didn't need to do that.

I don't have a real good rehearsed method of switching from flat pick to finger picks. I just kinda do it fast as I can with no tricks.

Our other guitar player switches off between acoustic and lead guitar, so I often need to play both steel and guitar. I like doing it. It keeps it interesting and fun. When I stand to play guitar, we usually set up the set list so I don't need to play the outro of the last song or don't need to play the intro of the next song so the song transition is fast.

Regards,
Terry

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Terry Downs
http://nightshift.net
terry@nightshift.net

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I've been doing this for a lot of years now. The band I'm playing with currently, I only play lead but I still use a thumbpick and fingerpicks. I can still do Joe Maphis type single note stuff as well as all types of rolls and double and triple stops. I think that a flat pick limits you on guitar. Just think of this. Probably one of the best pickers who ever lived was ol' Chet and he never touched a flatpick. Then there's Brent Mason the number one session dude in Nashville who uses a thumbpick and fingers and plays faster and cleaner than anyone around. Look at Duncan Cameron with Sawyer Brown. He's played lead forever with fingerpicks. Anyway, back to the topic of this post. I like playing both because that way you can have the steelman playing what you'd like to hear or have the leadman playing what you'd like to hear, whichever! I do rides with both instruments in the same solo easily. When you switch you just have to figure out how to make the transition. I like to do something like Junior Brown does in where you play an open note or two on one instrument while you either put down or pick up the bar. Also I've always played a single wide single neck steel and a solid body guitar when doing this. I strap the guitar on where it clears my legs and the weight is on the strap. I also use a HipShot B-Bender while doing this as it works better than any other type of bender for this except maybe the Bigsby palm pedal which doesn't work on my Strat. I work with another band on some gigs when my group isn't working which is a trio. Their normal lead player likes to take a lot of time off so when we're not playing he lets me fill in for him. A trio situation is ideal for this type of thing as you can really sound like a bigger band. Another neat trick is to play a song (usually a ballad) in E or A on the lead guitar and then play open string fills on the steel behind it using just the pedals. I like to do this on stuff like "Help Me Make it Through the Night" or "Silver Wings" and some others.

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Have a good 'un! JH U-12

Dyke Corson · From: Fairmount, IL USA

Yeah, I've been doing this for 20+ years, I played six string first with a thumb pick and bare fingers when I was a kid, and as soon as I started on steel I just left the finger picks on (I have seen a bunch of other guys do it too)There are some things I can't do as well on 6 string without a flat pick, but at this stage in my life I feel I'm too old to change! I use a ProfexII on steel and an old Digitech RP-1 on guitar and plug them into each channel on Vegas 400s. When I want to take a guitar solo all I have to do is tun up the volume on the guitar. So, I do both guitar and steel duties, my wife Chrissy does both bass and keyboards at the same time - we are usually a package deal, just add drums. The only regret I have is that I have not got real good on either instrument!! My goal is to cut back on gigs and try practicing at home more to be a better player....someday

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

The main obstacle, in my opinion, is the unsuitability of the Peavey steel amps for electric guitar.

I used to 'double' quite a lot back in the UK but, since coming here in '98, I've only played steel. My amp of choice for 'doubling' was always the Evans combo - it sounded great with a Telecaster, and the clarity of the steel sound, especially on the low end, was remarkable.

I've had my Evans shipped here, but haven't yet got around to having the voltage altered - I really must do it.....

This is not a criticism of the Peavey amps, by the way - I love their sound and their reliability - but a Tele through an Evans....mmmmm!

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Roger Rettig
Emmons LGIII(S10/D10)& MCI D10

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Hi Joey

I've never tried the POD range of products, but I keep hearing positive things about them. Interestingly, though, I can't seem to get a satisfactory 'Tele' sound even processing the guitar through my 'Profex II' - is the POD Line 6 essentially different to other FX units in some way?

The other odd thing is the fact that the Evans, like the Peavey, is a transistor amplifier, and yet sounds really 'warm'....

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Roger Rettig
Emmons LGIII(S10/D10)& MCI D10

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Yes. The POD is a digital "Amp Modeler".
It has some basic effects also.
Read about it at www.line6.com

Gary Moorse uses it for Steel and sounds great. I've never been happy with it for Steel. I even attended a seminar with Gary and got all the inside info. It works for him.

I pleased with it's standard guitar sounds.

Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

Another vote for the POD... I use mine to drive a '69 Twin. That let's you mash the tone a little without blasting the Twin at a high volume. I could never get the Pod into the Nashville 400 to work for me.

I think it's sorta the best of both.. modern DSP technology, warmed up by the Twin.

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Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

Peavey steel amps may not be suitable for electric guitar, but Fender tube amps are VERY suitable for guitar AND steel as well! Want to play both and sound great? A Twin or Dual Showman or even Bassman may be just the ticket!

Mark Zinns · From: Oakland CA

I have been pretty happy with my Fender Deville 2X12. The problem lies in getting the settings just right (maily volume and reverb to accomadate two different FX boxes). I'm using a RP-3 for the guitar and a Zoom 1010 for the pedal steel. I'm thinking about going to a POD for the steel though. Anyway, all your posts are very helpfull. It's been pretty rewarding when people say "Killer solos!"

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Sierra U-12
Sho-Bud D-12
Fender Dual Professional

Bruce Derr · From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA

With one of my bands I play a steel (Kline) and a Tele throught the same amp. It's a Peavey Bandit 65. Sometimes I play both in the same song, but not usually. Depending on the song, I keep the guitar either on my lap or on a stand next to me, ready to grab. I have a homemade A/B box clipped to the leg of the steel. It's just a Gibson-type pickup switch and three jacks, in a box mounted with two broom clips. I don't change picks when I grab the Tele. I usually don't even have to change my EQ.

I have to say that do find it a bit awkward to play steel while the Tele is in my lap.

Tim Harr · From: Dunlap, Illinois

I play Tele while I play Steel..... I have dialed in a patch that will complement both on my TTFEX. I play both on songs like= Silver Wings, Chattahoochie, Fireman, Amarillio By Morning..I do the fiddle part on PSG. It just depends on the situation...

I use a Peave Valvex rackmount tube mixer that allows me to plug up to six instruments into it and send on line out to the input of the TTFEX. AT this point I have only used two input on the mixer at a time.

If I am just playing steel I use 3 or 4 different patches ...if it is just guitar I use 2 or 3 different patches alone.

When I go from PSG to tele I leave my finger/thumb picks on. It has just become a habit when I do both on the same tune. Usually on just guitar I split between a flatpick and thumb pick about 50/50 percent... of the time. It usually depends on the song. (ie: flatpick = "Copperhead Road" ...... Thumbpick = "Rocky Top or Working Man Blues")

In response to Dyke's playing between Gtr and Steel.....it is fantastic.. Check him out sometime....

Tim

Ron Whitworth · From: Yuma,Ariz.USA Yeah they say it's a DRY heat !!

Hi All;
Let's not forget Buck Owen's lead/steel man Mr. Terry Christofferson(sp?).He makes it look real easy wearing that guitar around his neck & switching back & forth with ease.
Later Ron

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Back to the amplifier issue - I didn't mention another favourite one of mine, a Musicman 65x115. I bought this from Redd Volkaert, and he definitely left some talent in there!

It sounds great on steel and Tele - the common denominator seems to be the 15" speaker. I never cared for the 'Twin' with its two 12" - too bright for me. Years ago, I had a Fender Vibrasonic - very similar to my Musicman, and very good.....

I'm going to check out those PODs!

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Roger Rettig
Emmons LGIII(S10/D10)& MCI D10

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