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Topic: Road steeler vs. Session steeler Pt. 2 |
Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 2:28 pm |
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One more thing, then I'll stop, I promise. 
Dan mentioned "serendipity." One of my favorite definitions is this:
Luck is that point in time where preparedness meets opportunity.
You might have all the opportunities in the world offered to you, but if you're not prepared, you won't get the call back. And you might also be the most prepared picker on the planet, but if you're in a place where no opportunities are likely to occur, you might not even get the initial call. Either way equals disappointment.
I like to think that there are winners and there are learners rather than losers. When you lose is when you fail to learn from your failures or someone elses successes. I've had my share of wins, lessons, and losses, and I mean in all walks of life, not just professional music.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 2:37 pm
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| Edit time friends and neighbors! [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 03:45 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 03:47 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 06:00 PM.] |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 3:37 pm
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quote:
And you might also be the most prepared picker on the planet, but if you're in a place where no opportunities are likely
to occur, you might not even get the initial call
You want to catch fish, you go where the fish are. |
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 4:33 pm
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Post deleted
Last edited by Jody Carver on 27 Aug 2012 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 5:13 pm
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| What? I'm a good cat man! Love cats, got lots of 'um. Everyone knows that! My cats love steel, hate fiddles, something about the material the strings are made of I believe-------R.K.S. |
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mtulbert
From:
Plano, Texas 75023
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 5:18 pm
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Well, here comes another blast from the past. Every steel player that I had the honor to record in Nashville got there by a different road. It is easy to think that Paul just plopped into town and started doing tons of sessions. Every picker I worked with had to PAY HIS DUES and they did. As a musician who was an engineer, it become obvious to me which group would have great chemistry and which group sometimes didn't.
We once did a session (back in the 70's again) with a well known piano player. The producer on the session asked him for an "Elton John" sound. The picker modified the lick and played it with a little more attack. The producer was ecstatic with the fill. When the session was over the piano player asked me who Elton John was. I almost choked with the laughter.
Finally, if there was one thing that I noticed about the Nashville bunch in those days was that they played great no matter who the artist was, and we had some real winners.
They did a great track for "Even Ole Rover Knows It's Over". Song 0 Track 10.
I didn't see alot of politics in those days. There was always good chemistry between producer and musicians and the smart producers knew to let the pickers do their thing.
Enough said.
Mark T.
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Bill Llewellyn
From:
San Jose, CA
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 5:47 pm
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I'm glad Paul gave a little of his background at the opening of this thread. Very interesting. All this discussion of ability versus politics, and Paul's deference to the hand of God working in his own career, reminded me of a verse from the Book of Proverbs: "A man’s gift makes room for him, and brings him before great men." (Proverbs 18:16)
PS: Boy, do I personally identify with Les Campbell. I've got a great gig in a bedroom of my house and I'm a big hit with my huge fan base comprising my wife and 4 year old daughter, but have yet to get a call into a local studio or even a dance hall. Shucks.
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Bill (steel player impersonator) | MSA Classic U12 | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 5:57 pm
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Deleted
Last edited by Jody Carver on 27 Aug 2012 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 6:50 pm
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Jody,Jody, Jody,
Yea, your a wonderful guy,and it's a real pressure talkin' against ya! I really do endure talking to ya, Lets do it again next time we have to! Someone said you put Fender Steel production where it is today, is that true? And I do thankyou for the kind words, I do feel we could be a good writing team though.
If I could ever learn to spell!
Robert Katz Seymour!---Huh? |
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Bruce Bouton
From:
Nash. Tn USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 7:23 pm
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I just got back in town and read all these posts.It broke my heart to see such anger and resentment although I do understand it.I've had to fight that demon over and over. I dare say that most of the players posting (that I actually know , Bobby Seymour included) play circles around me. I would be embarrassed to lock horns with any of them. I would also be embarrassed to hang out with them knowing how much they resent what I have accomplished.
What did I do to get where I am. I was extremely lucky. Got a job at showbud , met a bunch of players,played for free, started doing road gigs. I also started hanging with songwriters cause I liked em. I wanted to write songs cause I really wanted to be a singer at first. Got a job with Skaggs. Got to play on his first album. Pulled it off thanks to his patience. Thought I was pretty cool until he hired Lloyd and Weldon on the second album. Managed to keep the gig for a few more years until I got myself canned for attitude. Terry Crisp replaced me and took the steel to a new level. I blamed Skaggs for awhile until I realized no one wanted to hear it. I tried breaking into sessions but to no avail. I politicked producers so bad that they would turn the other way when they saw me coming. I went back out on the road. In the meantime this waitress I met at the laundrymat talked Alan Reynolds into letting me play on her record. That song was "Eighteen Wheels and a Dozen Roses". In the meantime my songwriter buddy , Don Cook,was fooling around cutting Demo's on Kix Brooks and two of my other friends Bill Lloyd and Radney Foster were trying to put a band together so I helped them out and another young songwriter liked what I played on one of his demo's so he requested me when he recorded "Much to Young to Feel this damn old " and some of these guys kept using me through the nineties and I made a good living.Other guys tried me and never called again. Alot of guys have never called.Lately I've had alot of time to reflect on my career and I'm able to see a little more clearly the right and wrong turns I've made over the years . I've had to remind myself that this business owes you nothing . Everyones trying to hang on to what they got .I feel like I've worked hard and I've tried to listen other than that I've been lucky. I never played golf and I rarely fish but I really do love songwriters. I probably owe them the most . (Except for all the great steel players that have shown me anything I've wanted to know.)
A few memorable quotes.
" If your lucky you'll get five good years in the session business'
" Buddy Emmon's (the only time I was in his house)
"You rise with the people you came in with"
Paul Franklin (sometime in the eighties)
"The Lords been good to me"
Sonny Garrish
"listen to the words "
Lloyd Green (when asked by me what I could do to be a good session player)
"Bouton ,your'e an asshole"
(to numerous to mention)
Have a nice day!
BB
PS I never would have played the intro to "Strawberry Wine" the way Dan Dugmore did.It made that record.
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 7:31 pm
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Last edited by Jody Carver on 27 Aug 2012 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 7:34 pm
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Last edited by Jody Carver on 27 Aug 2012 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 8:13 pm
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| Yes herb, Ive read it many times and it really brought a tear to my eye knowing this very intelligent man the way I do, he is a very mighty person to say what he said, even though I don't agree with his poor opinion of himself. He is diffrent as we all are,we better be , we are steelers! Bruce,you have a lot of pro players in this town that love talking to you and hearing what you have to say.You have a very open mind and listen to others opinions and ideas like no one else I know. I told you many years ago how I respected you and I knew you could do anything in the music business you wanted to do. How many folks know your a great song writer or produced a Merle Haggard record? I know! Bruce,shut up and go to work! We all really do love ya!---- Bobbe |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 8:19 pm
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Jody, your pretty darned intresting too! Boy , is this a great forum or what, and it's even getting better!Jody, some day I'll tell you about the "e" in Bobb"e". Great story. Remember Bette Davis?
Bobbe |
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Pat Burns
From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 8:27 pm
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...as an observer, it's funny (not ha-ha funny) how people will put in writing what they would be reluctant to say in person, good or bad...guess that's why people used to write love letters to their high-school girlfriends...I did..but I can't recall ever writing a hate letter..
..look at diaries from historical figures and everyday people of the past, they used to write all the time...the art of writing had been dying until the advent of the internet brought about a revival...but the writing of today often lacks the civility of those old-time letters...I know I always need to hone my writing (communication) skills...it is a powerful and permanent aspect of people skills..
Jody, don't you ever sleep? From what you were telling me about Milford, I guess if you do, it's with one eye open.
...how about them Steelers! (had to say something about steel to keep this on topic) |
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Mike Weirauch
From:
Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 9:22 pm
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| I liked Bruce Bouton before I read his thread. I still like him after I read his thread, even if my opinion of him is higher than his opinion of himself. I may not know steel guitars but I do know people and Bruce is good people. |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 10:12 pm
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OK call the National Enquirer or VH1 where were they then. I am about to give the deep dirt on Bruce Bouton.
I first met Bruce when he was playing possibly the worst road gig out of Nashville (Freddy Hart, as I recall). He showed up at the Palomino club in North Hollywood (I think I was subbing for the regular steel player). We talked, and I was impressed with the guy. He clearly was in touch with what was happening in the steel world. I was really impressed when he called me the next day and we got together (for the next few days) at my apartment in Sherman Oaks and we traded licks. As I recall, everything I knew about what subsequently became known as 'speed picking' and he showed me some very cool Charleton and Emmons C6th stuff. I was even more impressed because he was really, really, polite to (my then girlfriend, now wife of 22 years) Sarah. She still likes the guy. So Bruce and I really hit it off. Because he took the time to get to know me, and to let me know what he could do, which was impressive, let me tell you. The guy had obviously been well trained, had great tone, and great chops.
So when I was faced with the position of having to leave my road gig (with Lacy J. Dalton), to go with Asleep at the Wheel, with virtually no notice, the first and only guy I thought of to fill my spot was Bruce. Not that I didn't know good steel players in LA, but he was the only player I knew of who could step into a tightly rehearsed Nashville type road act with no rehearsal. And he stepped into a gig with a heavy set of expectations (sorry Bruce), killed the set, and proceeded to make all the players in that band say 'Dan Who?' after the very first night. SO it was clear from the earliest that Bruce was focused on doing what he needed to.
I have kept in tough with Bruce for the 22 years since then, when we were competitors (at least potentially), when I was out of the game, when I was starting to get in the game, when I was a potential employer (e.g. when I ran the Amazon.com music store) and since then, when I am just another steel player. One thing I have got to say. I have never, ever, ever, heard Bruce say anything negative about any other steel player. And I would have had ample opportunity for me to hear negativism, when I was out of the biz. Even when I made negative comments about steel players (as have many of us) Bruce always has made positive comments about their contributions. About the closest to a negative comment I have ever heard to a steel player is regarding a particular performance regarding the potential for that performance.
I do know that Bruce has been the butt of some jokes regarding his enthusiasim for session playing (using under the heading of 'politics;'). From what I have seen of Bruce, he is guilty of a couple of things: love of the steel guitar, and a feeling of insecurity regarding his playing. I personally can relate to both. But I can say without reservation that there isn't a single session that Bruce has done where I could honestly say that I could have done a better job. And to be honest, there aren't a lot of steel players I would admit that to.
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www.tyacktunes.com |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2001 10:20 pm
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One addition I will make to this.
I don't know all or most of the A team Nashville players. But of those I know, the most negative comment I have ever heard about Bruce was "he's such a great player, I wish he wouldn't try so hard".
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www.tyacktunes.com |
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Mike Cass
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Posted 9 Jul 2001 1:26 am
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Its interesting how a few of the folks who went to the trouble to agree with me regarding my previous posts on "part one" of this thread; either by posting, email, or even a few phone calls to me,have now turned the other cheek & seem to be choosing a different path. A tip of the hat those of you who've stood yer ground ...whatever your position  .
Perhaps a complement, depending on the source, has the ability to sway one from their path(ah,those people skills ).Ive found that my first instincts about people & situations are usually right,(for me) & that doesnt seem to be in danger of changing.
Two sayings I love, neither one by a steel guitarist:
1."those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it......"
2. Politics & Religion is the last refuge of scoundrels ;
You know, ...I wish no one ill, or loss of comfort.Also, I am not involved in "professional envy".
How can you envy another..???"Each person according to his/her own gifts" is what I was taught.
I have the utmost respect for your abilities, Paul & Bruce....... believe what you will ....and dont wish to play like either one of you.....
it just wouldnt be me!!!
The tone I get, & the musical ideas I present(good or bad), are the same ones Ive had all along.Ive just tried to hone them, like you.
That some would liken them to anothers...as has been the case,(even heard you criticize me for it, Bruce; to your credit, it was to my face),is I believe, unfortunate for ME.However, try as I might, thats what comes out....you play the cards youre dealt.You might ask the folks I grew up with professionally, if Im lying .
I only wished to point out that the steel has definitely taken a back seat in todays Country Music and myself & some others expounded on why we thought that might be.
If anyone took offense, then thats yer stuff & keep it out of my yard.
I made my apologies to those I thought deserved it & other than that, I stand by my original statements.
Ive always been told its a poor workman who blames his tools....
perhaps, the present music doesnt dictate itself to steel guitar as well as past versions???....or perhaps,
the steel has fallen victim to the mediocrity prevalent in todays society........??????
All I know is,except for on certain Opry spots & in certain basements & casinos, I no longer hear that spark anymore...the spark that caught my ear at a very early age.....and that breaks my heart....  .
if you give 'em plain oatmeal & tell 'em thats all there is, they will believe you.....sad to say.
Later....much.
[This message was edited by Mike Cass on 09 July 2001 at 03:32 AM.] |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Posted 9 Jul 2001 5:13 am
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You know, this is OT but we seem to be meandering a bit so I guess it's ok. In reading Bruce's post something came to mind that I realized a few years ago. It is perhaps a given that it is all too easy for us to get down on ourselves. Heck, anybody who really knows me knows I wrote the book on that subject. Even though Bobbe says this is the easiest instrument in the world to play , I think we would all agree that it can be a bear. The magic of it all can be so elusive and fleeting from day to day and night to night. This can wear on the psyche, for sure. But what I want to say here is that, even while we are wallowing in our funk, we possibly many times fail to realize the positive influences we have on others, both known and unknown. Every time you play a gig and every time you play on a recording, you never know who might be listening. Since I became involved in this forum, I have had emails from quite a few people telling me about a show that I was on, or this or that record, and how much it meant to them. Or how after hearing me they got inspired to take up the steel, or practice harder, or whatever. Every time something like this happens it reminds me, even at my level, that I have something to contribute after all. It makes all my self-doubt seem so petty and ridiculous. Not to mention a total waste of energy.
As a case in point, let me tell you a story about Bruce Bouton. The year was 1977. I was a floundering guitar player who was dabbling with the steel, but I really had no focus or discipline with regard to it. At the same time I was half-heartedly going thru college, wondering what in the heck I was gonna do with it even if I ever got out. I went to Richmond to visit a friend and when I got there he said "Hey, the Good Humor Band is playing over at the Pass tonite!" I had never heard of them, but I said ok. As we were going up the stairs to get in, I heard it. That steel, that tone, just THAT SOUND! We got in and I was just mesmerized the whole night. I hardly ever took my eyes off Bruce. Even my friend noticed I was really wacked out over it. That was the moment it all came together for me.That's when I knew what I wanted to do. Bruce was doing all this cool C6 stuff, so I knew I had to get me a double-ten. Then I heard about one Pete Finney had for sale, and when I went up to Maryland to buy that guitar, Pete urged me to take some lessons from Buddy Charleton. So I did, and ended up in a band as a guitar player, but with the understanding that I could play some steel as I got good enough. That band ended up sharing the stage with Bruce's band from time to time, and we became friends. And the rest, as they say, is history........
So Bruce, in a way I owe it all to you! As Buddy Charleton was my teacher, you were in my mind my mentor. The only bad thing is you got such a headstart on me I'll never catch up!
"Ain't it funny how the circle turns"-Jackson Browne
I dig songwriters too.....
PS-I would be remiss if discussed those days and did not mention another good steel guitar pal and supporter, Bucky Baxter...... |
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Paul Graupp
From:
Macon Ga USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2001 5:51 am
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Bobbe, Jody, Herb and a lot of others have called me a writer. For once I'm going to change and become a reader. I think I'll print this thread and keep it. There is so much here about Steel Guitar, I can hardly keep it all togeather so like Herb suggested,
I'm going to read it many times. And just when I thought things were getting a little lackluster too......Man !! This is a Great Forum ! Wish I could spell flagerizm !!
Regards, Paul[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 09 July 2001 at 06:52 AM.] |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 9 Jul 2001 7:12 am
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| * [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 May 2002 at 02:42 PM.] |
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Mike Cass
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Posted 9 Jul 2001 7:25 am
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Last edited by Jody Carver on 27 Aug 2012 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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