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Topic: Ideas for a new steel company |
Casey Lowmiller
From:
Kansas
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 5:01 pm |
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Howdy,
I plan on starting a new custom steel company and was wondering if anyone had any good ideas.
What's your favorite steel design(s), favorite sound(s) and favorite options??? If there's one steel model that you'd like to see brought back... what is it & why?
I hope to offer about 5 different models, almost unlimited colors, options on hardware, options on # of necks & # of strings. Right now the base price would be about $300. I think anyways!
Any help is much appreciated!
Casey
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Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan"
Fender Pedal 800, Fender Champion, Homemade Double-neck, and tons of other stuf!!! |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 5:16 pm
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| I have an idea: I'd rethink this idea. |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 5:31 pm
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Casey, have you ever built a steel guitar before?
Here are some of the good ones . . |
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Casey Lowmiller
From:
Kansas
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 5:51 pm
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Yeah Rick,
I built a double neck in 1999 with rather crude tools. My brother and I have come up with some manufacturing ideas that should make the construction fast, simple, consistent in quality and cheap!!!
I'm tired of all this $100.00 japcrap!!! I think that serious players would like a good-quality cheap lapsteel that has classic tone and looks...you can take it out and play it and not worry about it. You can keep your classics in their case more often and save wear & tear. Also, if it gets stolen at a gig...at least it's not a priceless classic!
Casey
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Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan"
Fender Pedal 800, Fender Champion & a Homemade Double-neck![This message was edited by Casey Lowmiller on 30 March 2005 at 05:53 PM.] |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 5:58 pm
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Hi Casey. You said "I think that serious players would like a good-quality cheap lapsteel that has classic tone and looks...you can take it out and play it and not worry about it. You can keep your classics in their case more often and save wear & tear. Also, if it gets stolen at a gig...at least it's not a priceless classic!
If you're serious musician and you're not going to play your best instruments on gigs where people are listening to you, why bother having them? I can't leave the house without my best tools, no matter the gig.
Good luck, though![This message was edited by Mike Neer on 30 March 2005 at 05:59 PM.] |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 6:09 pm
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You might want to get some business advice if you are serious about doing what you say. First, at $300 your margins would be to slim to support custom work except as a hobby. I would take a look at what Industrial Guitars is doing. They are probably one of the most successful at this lower price lap, and most of his line is standard guitars. They are also built with inexpensive materials and have a very standard look. I don't believe this guy is getting rich, but he is making a living. But he has also been at it for a while.
You also need to consider your market: how many can you possibly sell? For all the wonderful superlatives and excitment that gets thrown around this board, Lap steels are a very small market. And a very crowded market to boot.
Good luck: my suggestion. Talk to someone with some business experience before you sell the farm on this venture. |
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Casey Lowmiller
From:
Kansas
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 6:28 pm
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These will be good-quality steels!
As far as production goes, I can build about 5 a week or so. Custom wise, it all depends on what someone wants...I'll offer 5 different bodies... everything else is optional...I'll offer certain options within limits. This will be a hobby/business but I'll still keep my job as t.v. producer.
Very small start-up costs, very cheap labor, very- cheap production costs and we'll still maintain quality. Of course, some options will cost more... it's a made to order/ al a carte type thing.
As for selling them, the internet of course and probably straight from the shop...I live right off of
I-70, and probably some cheap t.v. commercials since I can get them cheap cheap cheap!!!
Casey
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Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan"
Fender Pedal 800, Fender Champion & a Homemade Double-neck! |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 6:37 pm
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| Quote: |
| If you're serious musician and you're not going to play your best instruments on gigs where people are listening to you, why bother having them? |
Hehe, good point Mike.
However,- after a friend of mine had the pleasure of witnessing a drunk idiot stagger up on stage and puke all over his shiny red Gibson ES-335 between two sets, I DO see the point of having a cheaper substitute on some venues, and I've definitely played places where I would not want to bring my expensive Asher. Of course, the best would be to not play those places, but sometimes you just never know...
Anyway,- to answer the original question, I would prefer a six string with two pickups (I think there's far too few manufacturers who offers a dual-pickup option, and coming from a guitar background I appreciate having more than one pickup). Body shape? Well, I love the classic Weissenborn shape but I'm open to almost anything...
There seems to be an eruption of decent mid priced lap steels these days, so I can only offer you my best wishes!
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 6:48 pm
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Here's a serious idea: Make ONE! any type. Show some photos and clips: better yet send the prototype around to some of the members of the forum to try out and comment on. You'll probably get a better ROI than even cheap tv commericals.
Here's what not to do: Do not ask for payment up front for a steel to be made in the future. Make them first and then sell what you make. We haven't forgotten the Matt Roe Dobro scam. |
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db
From:
Bethlehem, PA 18015 USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 6:52 pm
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Build a lap steel with 7.5" behind the bridge for mounting Palm Pedals.
Offer an optional roller bridge and nut.
Let the "customer" select the tuners (like Planet Waves).
Offer multiple 7 & 8 string models.
And I would be a customer.
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3[This message was edited by db on 04 April 2005 at 06:56 AM.] |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 6:54 pm
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You have 2 basic camps in 'lap' steel. Fender vs RickenbacHer.
Clear and trebley, or smoother, altho both are capable of each in their own way.
So appealing to everybody will be a challenge.
At first I had to go along with Bill, funny as it was, and I'm all for "$100.00 japcrap!!!", but after hearing you expound on your 'background' a bit I think you could succeed on determination alone.
I'm ready to buy.
From the example of Mark Vinbury's DynaLap, good things can come from a garage full of ideas.
Be forewarned tho, you're against stiff competition to beat the DynaLap's bang for the buck.
But there's a waiting market for what you're offering, and I'd love to see major competition in this area besides the funky Strat style PU jobs showing up lately.
Will your operation be strictly wood based? Yer basic, and all too common, plank with strings?
Carvin did good with that! How 'bout a solid, but chambered body?
Customizing allowed? 7/8/+ strings available? Horseshoe PU acceptable?
What are your concerns towards good tone, and getting it?
Most players consider tone to be paramount, and each has his own.
What will the fretboard layouts be like, tapered or equal @ nut/bridge? Strings thru or anchored?
Lots of players want the vol/tone controls near the bridge to minipulate/swell.
Plenty to consider...
Good luck! |
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 6:54 pm
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Triple your price and you'll still be lucky to be doing it in a year. No way can you make a good steel, with good P/Us and parts (pots, bridge, knobs, tuners, etc), sell it for 3 bills and make money.
To make it worse the lap steel market still has great sounding, very desirable steels out there in the $500-1500 range, and that's your competition, not the $100 Chinese specials.
As to the 'hobby only' aspect I can only tell you from experience that my overgrown hobby has come to be a job (albeit an enjoyable one) but if I had to churn out 5 (5??) cheap steels a week I'd be sick to death of it and stressed to the limit in no time.
I also agree with Mike N., I take the best guitars I have when I play out.
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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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db
From:
Bethlehem, PA 18015 USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 6:57 pm
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Build one "Backwards" with the tuners at the bridge.
This allows the high end of the fretboard to be further out
(to the left) for easier access when it's on your lap.
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3[This message was edited by db on 04 April 2005 at 09:58 AM.] |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 7:31 pm
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| Quote: |
| a drunk idiot stagger up on stage and puke all over his shiny red Gibson ES-335 |
Ooops, sorry about that. Shouldn't have mixed Aquavit with my meds....  |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 7:40 pm
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per db,
it also allows easier tuning, freeing the left hand. |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 7:53 pm
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I'm surprised at the negative reactions of some of us. This sounds like an great idea. Make good quailty steels at low prices. What could be wrong with that? He's not asking us for seed money or anything. Sheesh!
DBs idea of making one model with space behind the bridge for palm pedals is a good one. Players could also put a trilogy bridge there.
Make 6 and 8 string models. single and double necks. I would make sure the string spacing is fairly wide (wider than pedal steel) since that is what most straight steel players like. Put your tuning pegs sticking up. Make legs available. Make a "boo-wah" knob available. Since you're not going to be able to make a bakelite guitar, build along the lines of Fender Dual Professional. Above all, go for sustain and tone. |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 8:20 pm
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It could work. Only problem to me is that there are so many folks out there making shoddy ones at that price range that a good one at that price range would be lumped into the lame pile all the rest are in. And if you make them pricey there are lots of guys doing that... I considered this and couldn't come up with a workable business plan, even with 2 professional consultants working free. The pickups alone would cost almost 1/3 of your retail price at wholesale if they are quality. Bridges, nuts and fretboards will eat up a chunk, and you have to pay for webspace and advertising, showspace and hotels, transportation... all this stuff factors into the retail. Mine were going to have actual material costs of less than 95.00... and a cost for production and all that other stuff would have taken them to almost $300 each- COST- Considering the number of units I could realistically expect to move.
Just a little reality check... |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 8:30 pm
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Dan, I think people are not being negative to hurt but to help. Those of us who run businesses know the pitfalls. Notice Casey didn't say he wanted to start making a few lap steels, he said he wanted to start a Steel Company: big difference. I think we all think it is a noble idea. I just think some of us with some business experience took a look at the first post and thought bad business idea. I for one don't want to see someone invest a lot of money ( and this is an investment; tools labor, marketing) in an idea that seems extremely risky and not likely to succeed.
If he is determined, it won't matter what we say, he'll do it anyway. If he is smart though, he'll get some business advice first, write a business plan, and see if it really makes sense. My first business failed. My second business did okay. My third business is profitable and doing well. You live, you learn. |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 8:40 pm
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I agree.
Think positive but certainly be very aware of the negatives.
Suggestion:
Casey, check out Fenders, Gibsons, & Ricks by doing a search on them. Make one of each, or something similar using them as models.
Figure your cost and determine a selling price. Post it here in No Peddlers. You will get plenty of feedback and will know what to do and how to proceed.
I'd like to see you succeed. |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 30 Mar 2005 9:05 pm
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Casey; Do you plan on doing this as a full time job or a part time thing as time becomes free to you?
I am one of those who are looking at your concept with more than a bit of skepticism. The price of the materials of any electric guitar would and will eat all of the $300.00 very quickly. The cost to run the power tools used to build these things is not free. To sell product to the public means Uncle Sam will want a portion of your profits. In the US, liability insurance is an indisputable "must".
I could go on for another 500 words with this; however, I think you will get my drift. I have had two businesses for better than 25 years and know the cost of running even a small, out of the garage business. That’s how my wife and I started out.
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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)
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Brian Henry
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Posted 31 Mar 2005 5:46 am
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I built a 10 string lap steel - 24 1/4 " Here is the cost.
$25 for two pieces of oak from Lowes
$100 for an emmons keyhead
and grovers and rollers
$65 for a good used George
l's 10 string pickup
$30 for a new emmons chrome fretboard
$35 for a nbridge made by Chet Wilcox
$3.50 for oak stain
$8.50 for deft brushless lacquer
Ok the total came to $267.00 and I have a fabulous lap steel with gret parts. It sounds awesome with great tone. The tone sound just like my Emmons pedal; steel. After all most of the parts are emmons.
It is not for sale. I hope to do something similar with shobud parts
It was easy to make and looks a bit like a george board shape.
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2005 7:12 am
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Over the years, I have been involved in several different businesses. What I have found out is; you can build anything---selling it is the problem. FWIW
Erv |
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John Bushouse
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Posted 31 Mar 2005 8:13 am
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I like my National, with three sets of pickups (bridge, treble side, bass side). No tone controls, just three volumes and a master volume. So I'd agree with Steinar's thoughts on more than one pickup.
Slightly off topic, where does one find palm pedals for sale? |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 31 Mar 2005 8:53 am
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| Republic, Bethlehem and United States all tried steel too. All I have left to remember them by are their data books... |
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Casey Lowmiller
From:
Kansas
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Posted 31 Mar 2005 8:57 am
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Ya'll that named off what kind of steels that you like...thanks a million. Keep'em coming!!! That's what this topic is for. I'm concerned more about what people really want...I aim to please. As far as the business side of things...I got her all lined out! It will be a few months before I start construction of guitars. We're keeping it simple... myself...skilled craftsman, musician, and trained in N.D.T. and industrial processes and materials...my brother...skilled craftsman, musician, great fabricator and works in a machine shop. We're also very resourceful!!!
Personally, I love the sound of Fenders and I love the style of some of the old Gibsons. Some nationals were neat looking...how do they sound?
I've never got to mess with a Ricky steel...wish I had one!!!
Thanks for all your help and please keep the ideas coming. I'll definitely post pictures once I start building and maybe even pass one around!!!
Casey
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Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan"
Fender Pedal 800, Fender Champion & a Homemade Double-neck! |
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