Newbie Question on the worlds hardest instrument

Jim Jasutis · From: Tampa, Florida, USA

I have seen people refer to the steel guitar as the worlds hardest instrument to play. I have always wondered at this. I understand the challenge of playing each note in tune without the benefit of physically touching the frets as with a Spanish guitar, but instruments like the violin, and cello and others, face this same challenge. Then I started to read more about the way steel guitars tend to be tuned.

It is my understanding, that many, if not most of you do not tune your guitars to straight 440 pitch. I have the Cashdollar DVDs where she talks about tuning the 5ths a little sharp. I think she mentioned +2 cents, and tuning the 3rds, and 6ths, a little flat. I recently ran across a tuning chart on the web where "a little flat" could mean as much as -14 to -16.

While taking my morning walk, I started to think aobut the implications of this tuning. On a C 6ths tuning, you could go ahead and tune your A strings to -16, strum your chord, and everything would sound peachy. But what happens when you later find a need to play a G note on that string? Now, if you play on the fret, you are automatically going to be 16 cents flat. So you have to move the bar some to compensate for this, and then move even more to get to +2 where you want to be. If you try to fine tune this as you play, you sound sloppy, so you pretty much have to get it right, before you pluck the note.

So, it looks as though, you not only need to know where every note and chord is on the neck, but you also need to remember how far ahead or behind the fret you need to go for each note, depending on which string you are trying to play it. If this is actually the case, then I am beginning to see where this instrument gets its reputation.

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

In time your ears will find the correct "Just Intonation" notes usin' the "Equal Temperament" fretboard as a reference point ...

Here are some ideas on that subject ... click on ...

Slantin' in C6/A7

Huge "fights" breakout over in the PSG section when it comes to this topic ...

Hope this helps ...

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Aiello's House of Gauss

My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

Bill McCloskey · Posted 5 Mar 2005 2:10 pm

Actually, I don't think that part makes it hard: you develop your ear pretty fast so that is not really an issue.

The problem that other instruments don't have is the vast array of choices. In any tuning you have many multiple of places on the neck to hit the note or series of notes. Then you have all the other tunings. Then the slants. Then the speed. Then the damping and muting. You get the idea. BTW, the Uilleann pipes are much harder, which is one of the reasons I sold my pipes.

[This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 05 March 2005 at 02:11 PM.]

Jim Jasutis · From: Tampa, Florida, USA

Cool, thanks for the link. Looks like the situation is even more extreme than I realized. If you are trying to play a -16 note on a +18 string, you really need quite an adjustment.

Jim Jasutis · From: Tampa, Florida, USA

Bill,

I bought a book on the U pipes and just avoided the whole thing Smile

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Jim: If blind man can learn to read Braille, we all can learn to play a steel guitar. The human mind is capable of doing amazing things "for us" if we allow it to. Most of it is called “Automatic Motor Reflex”. A learning process by means of repetition.

When you are in the process of learning a six string with frets, you pretty much have to look at your finger placement every time you change chords. Within a month, you Automatic Motor Reflex begins to take over and your fingers spread out on the appropriate position without you even glancing at the frets or your fingers.

Yup, learning to play a steel guitar is a little tougher without the physical feel of those raised frets, however, your ears and Automatic Motor system will work like all get out for you if you have the patience.

This guy may not have a very good reputation with most red necks in here, however Liberaci’s theory was “To be even a half decent musician, you need to practice until you fall off your chair; then, when you think you just can’t go any more, get up and go at it again until you fall off your chair a second time.”

Jim Jasutis · From: Tampa, Florida, USA

I have plenty of time -- I just wonder if it too late to traing the muscle memory

Rick Alexander · From: Florida, USA, R.I.P.

JJ - it's never too late until it's . . . too late!

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

I "hear" this is excellent ...

Intonation CD

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 05 March 2005 at 07:19 PM.]

Jim Jasutis · From: Tampa, Florida, USA

Thanks for the encouragement -- I have already decided that it is worth giving a try.

I have the intonation CD, just waiting to get to try it out

thanks again

Rockne Riddlebarger · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Hey Jim! Don't get to hung up on the abtraction of + or - cents in tuning steel guitars (or any other guitar). All that has to do with the specifics of the exact instrument, tuning and string gauge involved. Choose a tuning, use a tuner and tune with it to the exact pitch you need. Then play the guitar in various fret positions, if it sounds good, continue on. In studio recording stituations those missing or added cents can sometimes make a difference but in most live band settings those increments don't count for much. Good pickin'.

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

It's "Story time" ...

I jumped at the opportunity ... in the early 80's ... to take lessons from Jerry Byrd via coorespondance.

I would complete a lesson ... send a cassette to him ... he would critique it ... send a letter back ... yada, yada, yada.

The very first lesson/song was Sweet Lei Lehua in A Maj tuning ...

I was so proud. I had made sure my strings were new, yet warmed up. I had a new Korg tuner ... made sure all my strings were perfectly in tune (straight up) ... made 20 takes ... checked the tuning after each take ... picked the best one ... and sent it.

I got his usual handwritten letter ... less than a week later ... I got it right here .

quote:
Hi Rick, I played your cassette, but had to turn it off after the first few bars.

Your strings are so out of tune ... I can't listen to it.

Learn to tune by "Just Intonation" ... your guitar must be first and formost, in tune with itself.

Send that lesson again, once you have learned how to tune your guitar

I was devastated ... but set off to learn what this "Just Intonation" was ... I had no idea what it was, JB didn't explain it in the letter (his video wouldn't be out for 7 more years) ... no Internet ... just the library.

Well, I figured it out ... tuned up ... and sent it off ...

Got a handwritten letter back in less than a week ...

Jim Jasutis · From: Tampa, Florida, USA

Oh, so you are the one. I remember reading that story, and almost mentioned it in my original post. Didn't realize it was you. :>)

Alan Kirk · From: Scotia, CA, USA

It's not as hard as it first appears. Trust your ears.

Pick out simple melodies that you already have in your head. Practice slowly and concentrate on accuracy. Speed will develop naturally.

To prevent injury, take frequent breaks while practicing or playing and stretch your forearm and finger muscles.

Have fun.

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