C#m9th

Keith Grubb · From: Petaluma, CA, USA

Hey Guys,

Have any of you guys used C#m9th (low to high E G# D E F# G# C# E). I was going through Jerry Byrd's lessons last night and tried this tuning. It seems like there are a lot of chords available and it has a very distinct sound.

Keith

[This message was edited by Keith Grubb on 18 January 2005 at 03:45 PM.]

Jeff Strouse · From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA

I love the sound of this tuning and use it quite a bit.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Most people would call that E13.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Ditto, so many E's so little time.

Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

I use a similar tuning on my outside neck. the only difference is the low G# is a B and the middle two strings are swapped around.

E
C#
G#
E
F#
D
B
E

I used to use Byrd's version, but I have grown to prefer this one. When you drop the second string from C# to B, there are some very nice "pedal" sounding licks in there (ala the "Admirable Byrd" LP).

Stephan Miller · From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

Keith--it's hard not to see this "C#m9" as an E-based tuning, and the thing I notice is there's no "B". There must be other tunings that leave out the "5" interval, but I can't think of one offhand. This might be a big part of its "distinctive sound". It looks worth trying out, and so does Chris'cool variation with the out-of-sequence "E". -Steve

Keith Grubb · From: Petaluma, CA, USA

Yeah, I suppose I would tend to call it an E13 tuning, but since Jerry Byrd calls it C#m9th that is what I refer to it as. I think the distictive sound comes from the close intervals: D E F# G#, all major 2nds.

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

Compare the following:
Low to high

C#m - E B E G# C# E

C#m7th - B D E G# C# E
(E)

C#m9th - E B D E F# G# C# E
(G#)

WHAT DO YOU THINK NOW?

Aloha,
Don

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

Sorry guys. In the previous post the tunings were all aligned so that you could look down the line to see the same notes in the various C#m tunings. I guess the other remedy is to go up and down and not sideways. Ha Ha.

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Could SOMEONE tell me what the relationship of the "D" note is .. as given in the C#m7th tuning above..?
I would read that tuning as E13th..

The one listed as C#m is ACTUALLY the C#m7th (The B note is the seventh isn't it)?
Baz..

------------------

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

In C# that D is a 9th, but a flatted ninth

If it is 13 1/2 steps from the root it can sound good as a tension,.
but if it were a half step from the root, a trainwreck..

Ok if it were a REGULAR 9th, then it would be a half step from minor 3rd,
another likely but not absolute trainwreck.

Dropping it a half step splits the octave 2nd or 9th from that minor 3rd.

Keith Grubb · From: Petaluma, CA, USA

As I was looking over Jerry Byrd's tab it seems like C#m9th is basically used to make dominant 7th/9th chords from string 6 to 3. Using a straight bar across string 3 to 1 gives you the minor chord, which I suppose is why this tuning is refered to as C#m9th. A forward slant on strings 3 to 1 gives a nice sounding 9th chord.

Overall,it looks like Mr. Byrd omits the high B in C#m9th and omits the F# in his E13th. Otherwise they have the same notes. Just my two cents.

[This message was edited by Keith Grubb on 20 January 2005 at 01:34 PM.]

basilh · From: United Kingdom

So...David ..or anyone ..Please tell me WHY it's being called C#m9th?

I always understood that a minor 9th was:- root--flat3rd.--5th--flat7th--9th.. but not necessarily in that order..the 9th of C# is D# not D..

When the original post said

Keith Grubb · From: Petaluma, CA, USA

Basilh,

I don't know why this tuning is refered to as C#m9th. Jerry Byrd calls it that in his instruction manual. I would say that you are correct that this isn't an accurate name for the tuning. However, when I started this post I was just curious if anyone has used this tuning. I wasn't concerned whether or not the name of the tuning was applied correctly. It seems like there are four or five different ways to spell out E13th and this is just another variation.

Thanks for all your replies.

Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Alot of steel players in the 30's played in open E, without the possibility of playing full minor chords. If you wanted a minor chord, you would pull your second string up from B to C#, so your first three strings would be:

E
C#
G#

And there's your C# minor. I geuss they had already named it before they realized they could play the same triad as E6.

Having a low D note in your E tuning was already popular at this time, so I would think the D and C# ended up in the same tuning by chance, without the intention of being played together as 13th chords.

Since the tuning lacks a B or Ed, The "9th" must be a reference to the tuning as it plays in E, with a D and F#. Maybe they first called it "C#minor/E9th" and then they decided that was to longwinded?

I assume the reason Byrd calls it C#min9 instead of E13 is to make a clear difference between that and what he calls E13, which has both the C# note and the standard B string right next to each other. He did that because he got tired of cranking up that second string from B up to C#.

Chris Scruggs

[This message was edited by Chris Scruggs on 22 January 2005 at 08:04 PM.]

Al Vescovo · From: Van Nuys, CA, USA * R.I.P.

The chord is determined by the root in the Bass : C6 --C E G A / Am7--A C E G
Em sus 4 add #5--E G A C / G add 2 sus 4 add 6--G A C E etc... applied or intended.

ie: C6/G bass, Am7/G bass
Am7/F bass = Fmaj 9

Chord spelling can be a lot of fun.

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