Almost Electrocuted By Surge Protector

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

That's right.

For all you trailer rats, such as myself, my entire trailer, including an outside fuel oil storage tank has become HOT; going on 3-4 weeks, now. The entire screen on the outside porch - also HOT!

I sort of put it in the back of mind for a while, and said to myself that I would get a licensed electrician pal to come over and see what's going on.

I finally got zapped at the kitchen sink, which hadn't happened yet, as my belly came in contact with the aluminum trim around the countertop and my hands were on the faucet.
WOW! That's when I went to the phone and called my buddy and said, "you gotta get out here".

So he came out with his analyzing gear and we both then discovered the entire trailer was very HOT. It took some unplugging of stuff for a while, but it finally got narrowed down to a Belden surge suppressor for the PC.

Apparently, the surge preventor did do it's job, or tried to. My buddy, who used to live in the trailer years ago, said that it's getting old and that the ground fault for the entire electrical system is weak.

So the suppressor tried to shut down, but because of a weak ground it couldn't and was damaged in the process. Allowing a bleed-thru of current. Anyway, this is what he surmised.
The suppressor is 86'd now, and the problem has been remedied.

Pretty unnerving.

My power always goes out whenever any kind of storm moves in; heavey lightening/thunder or not. I get brown-outs all the time, too. So I imagine one time the system got hit pretty good to trigger the surge suppressor.

Now I gotta go get a new one.

So, pretty lengthy here, but just a word of caution for you trailerites. THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!

Oh yeah - I'm gonna go and drive a piece of 1/2" copper tube in the ground, solder on some well-grade copper wire, and screw it to the side of the trailer.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

A solid ground stake and clamp should cost about $13 at the electrical supply shop.
Losing ground can also wreak havok on the stuff connected to branch circuits when they suddenly have 220V across them. sparks do fly...

Dave Potter · From: Texas

Chip, I'm not in the trades, but, my understanding is that solder is not the way to go in a potentially high-current application, reason being that high current can generate high heat and melt the solder. Good clamping is the recommended method.

BTW, we've had 100+ degree high temps here for more than a month, I believe. I checked yours just now. Looks very inviting

.

[This message was edited by Dave Potter on 01 September 2006 at 04:49 PM.]

Robert Leaman · From: Murphy, North Carolina, USA

If you are connected to a municipal water supply, connect the mobile home electrical system ground to the COLD water pipe. If the water system is from a deep well, you can do the same if the well pump ground connection is connected to the main electrical supply ground. Use clamps, not solder. You can buy the proper ground connection clamps at most any hardware.

[This message was edited by Robert Leaman on 01 September 2006 at 05:25 PM.]

If you drive a copper rod in the earth, make certain that the earth is always moist around the rod.

[This message was edited by Robert Leaman on 01 September 2006 at 05:34 PM.]

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Thanks Ray, Dave, and Robert.

All your input is well recieved.

My electric buddy told me to go to and get a 'grounding kit'. The copper rods come in various lengths and a clamping device is included. I asked him how much they wanted for this kit, and he said depends on the length of the copper rod - $10-$30.

But, I'm a plumber by trade, and he knows this, and said, just drive a 5' or so piece of "L" copper into the ground and clamp #8 wire to it, and screw the other end into the trailer [scraping off all paint etc. to make a solid metal-metal contact]. But then he said, agh screw it, just solder the wire to the tubing. When I mentioned "well-wire" I was referring to wire that is sent down underground to submersible pumps. I think it may be .08 guage or even thicker. It's pretty thick stuff, and when you twist 3 or 4 strands together, you have a formidable conductor.

He knows his stuff; my electric buddy.

But Dave, I'll probably take your advice, as well, and just get a good, solid clamp and be done with it. Also, it saves hassling with a torch, solder, flux etc.

Once again, fellas, thanks for your insight and input.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Robert,

Thanks again. I was trying to get this reply out quickly and re-read your post.

I live on a beautiful piece of property, surrounded by conservation land.

There is the landlord's main house and 2 "grandfathered" trailers on the property.

Both trailers, as well as the main house are all on a communal well, located in the main house's basement. My incoming watermain is pretty old 1/2" galvanized pipe. Still standing up, tho. "Galvi" is still a pretty good choice for waterpipe, altho it is very prone to internal clogging and corrosion, and getting expensive, as well as demanding more labor [threading] to install. But it's formidable stuff. It does stand the test of time.

I understand why the soil should be moist, for conductivity, and I do live in a very moist environ [pine grove], but if I didn't, what should one do to skirt a potentially dry soil condition?

I see that you and Ray are real professional engineers [mechanical & electrical] and I just love picking EWES GUISE'S BRAINS.

Rear Guards,

ChipsAhoy

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 01 September 2006 at 07:50 PM.]

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 01 September 2006 at 07:52 PM.]

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

In my neck of the woods,all utility poles installed by the power company have a copper wire coiled around the bottom of the pole before it is dropped into the earth. This wire is known as the neutral wire, and it should be connected to the neutral buss of the breaker box in the house.
Any additional grounds added for use in the house, must be an 8'x 5/8" copper coated rod (in order to meet code specs).
Sometimes the connections between the breaker box and the neutral wire require tightening to make good contact.

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www.home.earthlink.net/~johnd37

John Bresler R.I.P. · From: Thornton, Colorado

Many years ago, I was a AT&T Residential Telephone Installer (When people made house-calls) and one of the first things we always checked at a Mobile Home site was the ground. If the skin was hot, we always waited until a licensed electrician fixed the problem. If not, we always grounded the trailer to a cold water pipe (depending on the water service), the electrical service ground, or in some cases drove a ground rod 6' into the ground and clamped a #6 ground wire between the rod & the trailer.

In todays world I don't believe any of the RBOC's or other local telephone service providers visit a site if they don't have to.

Robert Leaman · From: Murphy, North Carolina, USA

Chip,

An old practice, used by communications engineers, is when a ground rod is put into the earth, either some common salt (sodium chloride) or copper suphate is placed at the bottom of the hole. In time, these chemicals are leached into the earth and the effect diminishes but about one pound of either chemical lasts about 7 years. I believe plumbers have a rod with a pointed bob on the end that allows a hold large enough so that the chemicals can be dumped into the hole. Both compunds are hydroscopic, that is, they attract moisture (water) and improve conductivity by enhancing an interface between common earth soil and the copper ground rod. This practice lowers earth/ground impedance/resistance and maintains good conductivity over dry spells.

The galvanized pipe that connects your water system with the common well is also a type of what is called a counterpoise which lowers earth/ground rod resistance. After the ground rod is bonded to the trailer metal frame and its cold water pipes, the galvanized pipe will be part of your ground system.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Very interesting fellas. This is good stuff to know.

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

Just a few short years back I got a call to a possible electrocution at a trailer house.

When I got on scene I realized it was a guy I had been attempting to arrest on warrants for some time.

His wife told me how they had been getting shocked whenever they touched certain things in the house. He was trying to put a ground rod in one day and while doing so he leaned against the house and poof. He was only 27 years old.

He had been done some of the wiring himself instead of getting an electrician.

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Dick....that's a riot. "Smarty Pants" are not, well, so smart at times. Are they?

Robert...what you said about galvanized piping?...YEAH!...why isn't my main incoming watermain (1/2" galvi) enough to cover "ground to earth"?

Even if some original connections have become "loose"? The "galvi" pipe comes in contact with the trailer in many other points. Figure maybe with all those multi contacts, a loose one would be over-written by another more solid contact?

Anyway, fellas, I finally found time to go and pick up one of those grounding clamps.

Still haven't replaced the surge protector, yet.

I'm just too busy right now.

Thanks again, you guys.

Your inputs are much appreciated.

Chipper

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 06 September 2006 at 09:41 PM.]

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 06 September 2006 at 09:42 PM.]

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 06 September 2006 at 09:43 PM.]

John Hauck · From: Long Beach, California, USA

Chip,

I'm also an electrician/contractor by trade for @ 35 years and John Daugherty's reply was right on. You must drive a minimum 5/8" x 8' ground rod and bond a minimum of a # 8 conductor from the rod to the neutral (grounded conductor) from the utility at your service panel. You apparently had a substantial "leakage current" to ground,
and without proper grounding, you had no path for this current to dissipate and also trip any overcurrent device (circuit breaker) on the circuit leaving all metal parts of the trailer "hot"

Good grounding practices are sometimes overlooked when in fact it is the most important part of the electrical system.
(life safety).

Adding more grounding paths,( additional wires, rods), can complicate the matter by creating "ground loops". Maintain one substantial, good ground path with a minimum of 25 ohms or less in the path.

Hope this helps.

John

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

nothing makes me more upset to find someone that cuts the ground off the end of there cord on there amps and things. if they only knew how easy that could kill them

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Thanks again, John and Joseph.

I have to admit, that I am one of the 'knucklehead' ground abusers.

Up until this trailer problem, did I ever realize how serious grounding can be or get.

I'm a plumber by trade and always figured, "what the heck?" - if things get THAT bad, you can always swim. Not so, as an electrician. You get one shot; and if you're wrong, you're gone.

Thanks again fellas, for your important replies.

Chipper

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