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Topic: 8 or 10 string non-pedal |
Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 4 Jan 2005 1:28 pm |
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I just got wind of a D10 no pedal in my area. Would it be of any benefit for me to buy a non-pedal, D10 or would I be better suited to just look for a pedal steel?
I know I just bought a D8 non-pedal a few months ago but if the options are in my favour, I might take a bit of a run down the highway to see what this 10 stringer is. I have no idea who made this D10 or what kind of shape it is in. I was told however that the guy bought it but did not take the time to learn how to play the thing and now wants it out of his basement.
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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)
[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 04 January 2005 at 01:45 PM.] [This message was edited by Les Anderson on 04 January 2005 at 03:08 PM.] |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 4 Jan 2005 1:48 pm
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If you have the 8 then you might be set now.
A D-10 would give you relatively unllimited tuning capabilities. I have a home built S-10 non pedal.
But I spend more time on the Sho-Bud D-10 8+9.
Still the S-10 gives me another tuning to use.
It partly depends on the price.
If you have a decent D-10 PSG, you will have a lot more chording power.
So if the price is close to a D-10 pedal, then maybe the PSG is the way to go.
But the sound of a classic nonpedal is pretty cool too.
I am for both types, each has it's place.
What steels are we talking about?[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 January 2005 at 01:50 PM.] |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 4 Jan 2005 3:13 pm
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David, the D8 that I bought in October is a Guya which has great sound and appears to have more sound and tone options than a typical D8.
I have no idea who made the D10 that I heard about. I just need some info about the practicality of buying a non pedal D10 over a pedal D10. |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2005 12:27 am
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Les,
Just tossing out some thoughts here:
If you get a good deal on a brand name or otherwise very well built non-pedal 10 string, you'd likely not have difficulty reselling it, ...maybe at a profit. If it's a good Steel and a good deal, you could probably use it as a trade in on a pedal Steel when that time / desire comes.
If you've not played pedal steel before, then the non-pedal would serve and not interfere with learning non-pedal persuant to pedal Steel, ...since the tunings of each are the same or quite similar depending upon the copedent (tuning and pedals' note-changing scheme) chosen for the pedal Steel. And the ability to experiment with a number of tunings is common on the non-pedal while the pedal steel tuning is rather confined to it's copedent.
A 10 string non-pedal Steel will allow you a higher note and a lower note that your 8 string can't, ...or 2 lower notes, and lower notes afford a big bottom. A 10 string also affords the ability to experiment with different / broader tunings such as a 13th and diatonic ...and a platform to subsequently use the tunings you decide you like. 2 necks afford 2 tunings. 10 strings also provide a tuning span more akin to a pedal-Steel and thus better prepare you for the pedal transition (not really that big a deal, but every little bit helps in the building blocks).
To get used to the feel of a 10 string, you can remove the 2 outside strings so it feels more like your 8 string, and then add the 2 strings once you get comfortable with the instrument. You can also simply block the 2 outside strings with small blocks of rubber or foam-rubber/plastic.
Taking a non-pedal Steel seriously will lead a Player to learn selective voicings locations and mentally navigating / using the neck more thoroughly, ...whereas learning first on pedals compounds the task of learning neck navigation, and sometimes instills dependence upon the pedals over a more thorough knowledge of the neck without the pedals. Taking non-pedal seriously will also lead to the use of bar slants and the reasoning behind doing so; Which will provide that very valuable ability once you take on a pedal Steel. Having pedals can again lead to dependence upon the pedals rather than going through learning bar slants, ...although many fine pedal Steelers don't use bar slants. It seems to me that learning on a non-pedal Steel and then moving on the pedal Steel is more likely to provide a more-thorough approach.
You also might consider calling the person who has the D10 Steel and guide them through things to look for to provide you a description / identification before you drive down there, ....and you can seek help with identification via posting that data here on the SGF. If it turns out to be a good deal then it's reasonable to suppose you could sell it here on the SGF if you decide you don't want to keep it.
Aloha,
DT~
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 5 Jan 2005 12:33 am
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D–10 PSG's & D–10 NPSG's come from different worlds and l©©ks are about as close as they can get, to a serious aficeinato! (wah dat yoo sae?) Owning one should not deter from owning de udder¡
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“Big John” Bechtel
’49/’50 Fender T–8 Custom
’65 Re-issue Fender Twin-Reverb Custom™ 15”
click here click here
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Wayne Cox
From:
Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 5 Jan 2005 7:59 am
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I think that the only thing DENNY left out is the string spacing issue. Most pedal steels use a slightly narrower string spacing than most non-pedal steels. Typically: pedal...11/32", non-pedal...3/8".
Some folks don't seem to have any problem making the transition from one to the other; but many do. Just more food for thought.
~~W.C.~~ |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2005 8:49 am
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Les,
Watch out for guys like Keone (John); They'll have you GAS'ed in no time (guitarSSSS acquisition syndrome)! 
Aloha,
DT~ |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 5 Jan 2005 4:14 pm
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Well, I took a 2 hour drive to have a look at this D10, no pedal steel.
It's a blonde Guyatone D10. Has anyone ever seen or heard of this guitar; or, better still, does anyone have any info on a Guyatone D10? I know they were made in Japan but cannot dig up anymore info about the name other than they also make a D8. This fellow bought it in 1973 but has pretty much left it in its case. Maybe the only place they could sell these things was in Canada. 
The steel is in very good condition but the strings are most certainly not the proper gauge for a C6th tuning but that's a minor detail. The guy had a very small amp to play through so it is a little tough to evaluate the true sound of the guitar. It has three knobs ofr sound controls along with three switches that offers different tones.
Yup, the string spacing is the precisely same as my D8, 3/8’. Both necks have 29 frets so I am assuming that it’s a 24 ½’. (an amateur’s evaluation, you pros will have to enlighten me on that one)
It has two PU coils each on the lower neck and upper neck. The asking price is $700.00 with no volume pedal or hook up cord. I am kicking my butt for not taking my digital camera with me.
I think I need Rick Alexander’s advise on this one. If I am not mistaking he collects the older and/or odd ball steels.
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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)
[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 05 January 2005 at 04:16 PM.] [This message was edited by Les Anderson on 05 January 2005 at 04:17 PM.] |
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Stephan Miller
From:
Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2005 5:56 pm
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Les, I'm a novice steeler like you, so get out the salt-- but I think Denny is offering you very sound foundation-building advice. I'm not as sure about the resale possibilities, but the the good string spacing, tonal options and overall nice condition of the guitar would have its appeal. Plus there aren't many non-pedal D-10s floating around out there!
If you're burning to play pedals, I'd say get a D-10 pedal steel, but you don't sound sure. To me, a D-8 is more than enough at the moment, though I've started to think about a single-neck 10 for down the line. But if I remember right, you're the guy with the 4-hour-a day practice habit; if you apply that to a non-pedal D-10 and wind up feeling too limited, your next choice is easier to make.
It would bother me not to have a better idea how good (or not) this instrument sounds. If you're already kicking yourself in the butt, maybe you could overlook the pain in the butt it would be to call the guy
up again, arrange another meeting, take along your digital camera AND the amp you usually use for steel guitar. -Steve
[This message was edited by Stephan Miller on 05 January 2005 at 05:58 PM.] |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 5 Jan 2005 9:49 pm
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Yup Stephan, I am the guy who sits for hours in front of the D-8 and plucks away at it. I love the thing now and actually played with a band New year's eve. I have to admit however that I felt more comfortable with my chromatics while on the stage.
I wrote an e-mail to Rick Alexandra asking for his advise about the Guyatone D-10. I have been thinking however, it just may make some common reasoning to learn the D-8 to where I am satisfied that I have an appreciable handle on it then move to a D-10 pedal. I am still up in the air on it however.
My wife has already made up her mind on the subject. "Back to the basement!" |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 6 Jan 2005 1:21 am
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Les, sorry I didn't spot your post earlier - I was deeply involved in Stringmasterama . .
I hope my answer to your email helps.
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Rick Alexander
57 Fender Stringmaster T8, 69 Strat, Rickenbacker BD6
Music Man & Peavey Amps
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 6 Jan 2005 10:02 am
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Thanks tons Rick, your mail did clear up most of my questions.
Denny; Thanks a load to you as well. Your advise may have made up my mind as to my final decision on buying this D-10.
This forum is a wonderful place for us beginners to gain some very valuable advise and professional insight.
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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 7 Jan 2005 8:54 am
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I think that once you reach into the 10 and 12 string size the goal could be to leave the multiple tuning approach... just like in the pedaled universal. I think that I am getting pretty close to it and my solution is not to add thicker strings but to add out of chord top strings, similar to the "chromatic strings" on E9th and a similar approach on the bottom side.
With my present tuning (C6th/A7th +) I get a full 8 string C6th, a full 8 string A7th, a full 7 string minor a full 6 string B11th clone (just in an other key) and, and, and... this with 10 strings.
I plan to go 12 string to add a bottom F note like on the pedaled C6th to get that big M7th and some other stuff and add a top outboard string for chromatic work and the ability to play a 4 string diminished that tunes in nicely with a one fret slant but with 3 intervals left inbetween (that's why it tunes in nicely).
(D)
C#
B
E
C
A
G
E
C#
C
A
(F)
This tuning is NOT a recomendation! It's what I am becoming comfortable with, BUT it shows a developement into a single tuning and I think that was the message I was trying to give.
Getting used to more strings is simple: Just put your other guitars into the closet and play the new guitar ONLY. Don't go back and forth... if you have been able to learn to play steel guitar, you will handle this in a week.
... J-D. |
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