Speaker Cab for Super Twin?

Rainer Hackstaette · From: Bohmte, Germany

I have just bought this Super Twin on Ebay:

I don't have the amp yet, just the photos. From research here on the forum and on the Fender Amp Field Guide site, I understand that the Super Twin never came in a head-only version from the factory. If so, this looks like a pretty good selfmade conversion from combo to head.

Anyway - I need speaker cabs for this head. I was thinking about either:
1) 2 cabs with one 12" Eminence Deltalite II each, or:
2) 1 cab with one 15" Eminence Deltalite II or Kappalite.

2 12" cabs would give me 4 Ohms in parallel, while the single 15" would have 8 Ohms.

My cab preference is a closed back monitor-style wedge cab. Where can I find info on the cab dimensions, liters/cubic feet, diameter and placement of port hole?
Or would you prefer open-back combo-style cabs with tilt-back legs?

What would you do?

Rainer

------------------
Remington, Sierra, Emmons PP, Fender Artist, Sho~Bud

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Well, as you know, the Super Twin does not have an extension jack to accomodate an extension speaker. So this is what I do. Get a hold of forumite Rick Johnson, who will custom make you a pair of cabs, and you can wire in a second jack in one or both cabs in parallel so you can run two 8 ohm speakers and make your 4 ohm load. Then all you have to do is plug one cab into the back of the other cab, then THAT cab into the back of your Super Twin.

This works great for the STR, as it cuts the weight way down and let's you place two speakers where ever you want on stage. I always set one for myself as a monitor, and the other one on the otherside of the drummer. Also you can set your amp head next to you so you can tweek it with out getting up. I set mine on end so it saves stage room. Makes a goog coffee table, too! Hope this helps!

David Doggett · Posted 25 Oct 2006 9:35 am

I put one of these in a head cab, and I go along with everything James says. But for two speakers, you don't have to have a connecting jack in one of the cabs. Just get a Y connector to plug into the amp's speaker jack, and run two speaker cords from there - that makes parallel circuits.

Separate speaker cabinets are already pretty light, so you don't necessarily need neodymium extralight speakers. I have JBL D130s in Marrs cabinets (Duane Marrs), and they weigh only 23 lbs. each. I also have a single Eminence 15" in a large cabinet (48 lbs.), but the JBLs sound much better to me. Generally, two light or medium duty speakers will sound better than one heavy duty speaker. Even though the JBLs are rated at only about 60 watts each, running two gives a rating of 120 watts. Also, the 60 watts is an open back rating, and I use closed backs, which are much safer. In addition, I use a volume pedal and don't attack notes with it all the way on. So my JBLs are safe with the way I use the 180 watt STR.

The dimensions you will get for speaker cab design will invariably be for PA woofers or bass guitar. You don't really need a cab that big for steel, because you don't have any notes down where a woofer cab is designed to resonate. The smaller, more convenient cabs you can get from Marrs and Rick Johnson are fine for steel.

I prefer closed back cabs, because they prevent speaker blowout, are more efficient, have better lows, and have a more consistent sound in various venues. The only time I would use an open back, would be when I have to place my speakers in front of the drummer - he would have difficulty hearing closed back speakers, because they project all the sound out the front. But some people like the open back sound. You can get cabs with a removable or sliding back door, so you can use them open or closed as needed.

As for the STR, you should be aware that the default setting without a boost footswitch is the no-boost setting. It will only have about the volume of regular Twin. To get the full use of all that extra clean headroom, you need have a switch plugged into the boost jack and switched on.

Also, the default setting for the 5-band active EQ is for it to be on along with the regular tone knobs. This means all the knobs work at the same time and interact. You can get a very complicated EQ setting that way. But the real value of the two separate EQ systems is to have the 5-band setting switchable. That way you can set the regular tone knobs for one setting (say brighter) with the 5-bands off, and hit the switch to get another setting (say darker) by overlaying the 5-bands over the regular tone knob setting.

Good luck with the STR. You have a huge amount of clean headroom and Fender clean tube TONE. And you wont need heat in your practice room.

------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

Rainer Hackstaette · From: Bohmte, Germany

James, David,
thank you both very much for responding.
I had searched the electronics section of this forum re: the Super Twin before buying it. In fact, the rave revues from a lot of members made me click the buy-it-now button.

I know that I'll need a Y-cord to connect 2 8-Ohm speakers in parallel or go from one cab to the other, as James suggested. I also have a double footswitch with 1/4" phone plugs from a MusicMan amp to switch the boost and EQ on/off.

What I was after with my original question was to find out whether y'all prefer 12" or 15" in open or in closed cabs - and if I'd need a bass reflex hole in a closed cab and what diameter it should be. My experience with closed back speaker cabs - except monitors - is nill. I am using a Peavey Session 400 Ltd or Vegas 400, or 2 MusicMan RD-112 Fifty amps. All are open back combos. I play D-10 steels, but mostly E9.

What I am planning to do as a first step - and to test-drive the amp - is take 2 old Yamaha G-50 112 combos (19"x15 3/4"x8"), take the amp chassis out and put a spare EVM-12L in each cab. They are rated at 250 Watts/8 Ohm (and murderously heavey), and each alone should be safe with the Twin's power. I'll then close one of the cabs to compare the sound to the open-back cab. If I like the sound, I'll build monitor wedges of comparable dimensions or copy an H&K 12" monitor wedge. If all this gets too heavey, I'll use neodym speakers.

So what do you think:
12" or 15"?
open back or closed?
straight cabs or wedges?

Thanks,
Rainer

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Rainer,
Do your experimenting with your Yamaha cabs,and if you like the 12's ( the EV's sound GREAT BTW ) go with what you have ...If not , have Rick Johnson build you the open back cab's with removeable baffles ...One set for your 12's , and another set for 15's .... One input or two inputs on each cab..I had him build me two cab's with 2 inputs on each cab just because I like the option of using either speaker for the 1rst speaker out of the amp,and if I change my mind on stage , I don't have to move anything .... The Johnson cabs are made of very resonant Pine, and are very light in weight ... I think that you will find those EV 12's to work well for you ...The "L" in the name of the speaker stands for Long Throw ....They handle bass really well and you have punchier mids using the 12's ...Good Luck whatever you decide .... Jim
PS (Rick makes nice looking single 12/15 slant cab's with Fender grill cloth that will match your head really nicely !! )

[This message was edited by James Quackenbush on 26 October 2006 at 04:46 AM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Rainer, one thing to keep in mind is that the reason that most people go with closed cabinets is to get more punch and low-end response. The big advantage of the Super-Twin is that it gives the same powerful bass response in an open cabinet that most amps can achieve only using a closed-back design. Of course, it takes quite a good speaker to handle the kind of power and low frequencies that this amp can produce! As far as what size speakers to use, either twelves or fifteens will be fine. With the capabilities of this amp, the differences in tone with speaker size changes are pretty insignificant. It's a true "monster" amp.

David Doggett · Posted 30 Oct 2006 11:04 pm

I prefer 15s for country, but 12s cut through a little better for rock and blues.

Rainer Hackstaette · From: Bohmte, Germany

Update: the amp arrived yesterday and I powered it up with the small Yamaha cab to see, if it worked okay after the shipping. All the tubes glow normally and the sound is great, even with the weak Yamaha 50 W speaker (I went easy on the volume.

)

If a footswitch is plugged into the "Boost/Distortion" jack, the amp goes to 180 W. Am I right to assume that the footswitch only switches the "Distortion", but NOT the "Boost" and that a "blind" plug would boost the amp to 180 W also? (BTW: the distortion is pure crap, but I already knew that from previous posts about the Super Twin. The reverb is also nothing to write home about.)

In the 180-W-mode, the amp begins to squeal at only slightly raised master volume level - and it's not feedback from the guitar pickups (Fender Strat). Could it be that one or more tubes have become microphonic? There's no squeal in the 100-W-mode.

What I know about tube amps wouldn't fill a hollow tooth so any hints are more than welcome.

I am going to have an amp tech thoroughly check the amp and replace the filter caps and maybe change the tubes - but I'd like to understand a little more about this beast.

There are 2 trim pots on the back panel: "hum balance" and "output tubes matching". Are these to twiddle with, or should I well leave them alone, since I don't know what I'm doing?

I have two spare 15" Gauss speakers from "Eliminator" P.A. bass cabs. I don't know the exact model of the speakers, but does anybody use Gauss speakers at all for steel?

Thanks,
Rainer

P.S.: I just tested the amp with the BW speaker of my Session 400 LTD. Boy, what power and tone!

The squeal mentioned above appears only if the the reverb is turned on past 4 in the 180-W-mode. No reverb - no squeal.

The high frequency hiss that is normally quite pronounced, disappears almost totally, if the input volume is set to 10. Any setting below 10 gives hiss. Why?

[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 01 November 2006 at 08:58 AM.]

David Doggett · Posted 1 Nov 2006 9:57 am

The boost switch is switchable. Just plugging it in does not automatically give the boost, it must be switched on.

If you think of the distortion as just giving a little grit, it is usable in some contexts. But it is ratty, and not very musical, and will not give full blown distortion.

The reverb on mine didn't work. I never fixed it, but just use outboard reverb (PODXT). The squeel is something broken. But these things seem to be know for reverb problems. The initial Super Twin in the first year didn't have reverb. All the Rivera era Fenders (Super Twin, 140, the II series, etc.) seem to have some design flaws, anomalies, bugs, and incomplete concepts. But if you simply ignore the questionable feature (which is usually not needed), everything else works beautifully.

Any used tube amp should be checked thoroughly by a good tech who knows what you want (earlier breakup, more clean headroom, whatever). But be advised that this is probably the most complicated amp Fender (or anyone else) ever made. Techs have seen few or none of them before, and it takes a good experienced tech to work on these monsters.

I don't know anything about Gauss speakers. Some bass speakers are okay for steel, especially if you want a dark tone. But some are purely woofers intended to be used in bass cabs with tweeters. When used alone for guitar or steel, they may be lacking in mids and highs. Guitar speakers like JBL D or K series, Webers, Black Widows, etc. are designed to have good highs and mids with guitar and steel. But some people actually prefer the more mellow sound of bass speakers.

Gary Preston · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

Rick Johnson is my buddie and does exceptional work to say the least . I have a piggy back system that he made for one of my Nashville 400 amps and it really sounds sweet in the double cabinet . Give Rick an e-mail and go to his website and take a look around . Gary .

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Squealing is likely a microphonic tube, or a bad bypass cap. Be safe and have all the bypass caps replaced when you do the filter caps. The amp has a "Boost" switch, but I believe it just makes the amp a little louder. (I don't know where the 100-180 watt idea came from.) Even with the Boost switch off, you still have enough power to bury any regular Twin Reverb out there.

David Doggett · Posted 1 Nov 2006 7:57 pm

I never said what the wattage is with the boost cut. I just said it's about like a regular Twin. By that, I mean a Twin from the same era, which would be the late silver-face 135 watt ultralinear Twin. That's just what it seemed like from my experience. I've been contacted by other people who have bought one of these without a boost switch, and been dissappointed that it is no louder than a regular Twin, and I believe they were also talking about the 135 watt Twin. Their faith was restored once they got a boost switch. It just seems to me, you don't get the full 180 watts unless the boost is on. And without the boost it doesn't seem any louder than a 135 watt Twin, which would be about 2/3 of the maximum volume. But that's just a subjective guess - never did a side-by-side comparison.

I don't know how the boost cut is done, but it seems like it could easily just be that only 4 of the power tubes are used with the boost off, making it like a regular Twin, and the boost cuts in the additional two power tubes for the full 180 watts. But that's just a guess. In addition to the extra two power tubes, the ST tranny is bigger than a regular Twin. So maybe even with 4 tubes the ST is a little louder than a regular Twin.

And keep in mind that I have never heard my 135 watt Twin or my Super Twin at full volume, and wouldn't want to, unless I was at least half way down the field in a stadium. My guesses are based on how much sustain I can get before my volume pedal bumps. There were some situations I was in with a loud group where I was running out of sustain with a 135 watt Twin and my volume pedal was bumping (same problem with a 200 watt NV400). With the Super Twin with the boost accidentally off, I was having the same problem. Cutting in the boost cured the problem. I had all the sustain I needed at any tolerable volume.

Forum Index > Electronics		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: