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Topic: Tone Changes Seem Terrible at Times |
Gary Steele
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2006 9:54 am |
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I was reading Tom Gorrs post about this. My sound has been terrible the last few days. I'v had my Amp settings different ways and it still sounds terrible. I dont really understand EQ that much so i just rely on my ear. Most of the time i get a knocked out sound. I did recently go to a Dekley Low Boy pedal with a new Canadian pot, And it has sounded real good also. I was using a low Profile Hilton but talked to a few guys that said they tried a regular pedal to try keep everything Natural tube sounding. The Revelation tube Pre Amp has a Color Knob too. I'm not complaining about my system itself because i'm sure its the weather or me or something else. I'm hoping several people will respond and also the guys using the Revelation Tube PreAmp like mine. Anything anyone says is your opinion so lets not have anyone stepping on any toes. Hopefully this post will help me and and many others. You already know i dont know it all or i could tell you myself how to fix a sound problem. Like i say most of the time my system is real nice sounding. So lets hear your side.
Thanks, Gary!![This message was edited by Gary Steele on 01 July 2006 at 10:55 AM.] |
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Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
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Posted 1 Jul 2006 10:58 am
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HI Gary,
Dont know about the weather where you are, but around here it has been very humid, and I find that when it is humid like this my tone just goes out the window! Tweak, and tweak but to no avail! Once the weather changes my tone seems to come back on its own!!!Hope that its just a little thing like that for you! 
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72 Professional 8&5,73 PRO II 8&4, 79/80 PRO III 8&4,Fender Steelking, Hilton pedal, USA Tele, Fender Twin,Peterson tuner,Tut Taylor Reso's and Twang to the Bone!!
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Gary Steele
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2006 11:13 am
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Thanks Larry, People like John Hughey for example and others seem to sound the same anywher in the Country and at any time. It seems like it anyway. This is puzzling.
Gary!! |
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Bob Martin
From:
Madison Tn
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Posted 1 Jul 2006 4:22 pm
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Hi Gary, I think you actually said the problem without knowing it. You said that you did not understand eq and you mainly relied on your ear. Well of course we all rely on our ear but to get a tone that you like day in and day out you will at some point have to understand how eq effects your tone.
Only after you understand which frequencies makes your tone sound like you want it to will you be on the way to being able to dial in your favorite tone day in and day out.
Learning what frequencies sound like to your ear will be one of the hardest things you'll ever deal with but can be done with some practice and patience.
The 1st thing I would say for you to learn is all of the frequencies and their mathmatical equivalents. For example we all know that A equals 440 well you can use that as a starting point. You will also learn after some probing and reading what range of frequencies control certain areas of tone.
Such as if I want to add some bottom end to my tone I'll start with boosting the freq. range of some where around 100 hz to 150 hz. But I will say this again until you learn what 100 hz (hertz) freq. sounds like in the whole scheme of audio it will only remotly help you.
After repeatedly adding the freq. range of 100 to 150 hz and then playing your guitar will you learn what 100 to 150 hz sounds like.
This is very hard for me to explain and I hope my explanation has not confused you but if it has I will offer the help thru the medium of the phone. If you want me to try to explain it more clearly I'd be happy to but we need to talk because it sure looses a lot thry typing.
Let me know if you ever want to delve into this further.
Bob |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Jul 2006 5:54 pm
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I think that after a while, your "tone ear" just goes deaf. When that happens, nothing sounds right (to you). Get the best tone you can at the moment, and then put tone behind you. Concentrate, instead, on technique, imagination, volume pedal skills, different voicings, new chords, different arrangements, muting techniques, your timing, banjo rolls, harmonics, blending with the band, playing with proper intonation, scale variations, crossover picking, slant bar chords, using EFX properly, picking dynamics, etc., etc., etc....well, you get the idea. Forget "tone" for awhile and work on the other 99 things it takes to be a good player.
Don't be so enraptured by one tree that you miss the rest of the forest. |
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Gary Steele
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 9:13 am
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Well, I think i found most of my problem. I bought a Dekley low boy pedal not long ago and put a new Canidian pot in it. Then yesterday i was jamming with a couple other steelers and i ask the one if i could try his spare Goodrich pedal and it seemed to have a lot nicer tone. I checked it and it has a 250 K Clarastat pot. It is wired with some very thin white wire. Should these pedals have heavier wire? I have a feeling this Canadian pot might not be giving me what i need. It is a 500 K pot. I also see that the Dekley pedal where the string winds around the little barrel shaped piece it is smooth and dont have a screw in the center like the Goodrich. Some guys said to put a thin layer of belt dressing on it for the string to grab it better. I talked to a guy up here at a music store that does a lot of guitar repairs ETC and he talked like he has a Gear assembly you can buy and put on a pedal. What do you guys think about that idea?
Thanks, Gary. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 9:56 am
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Gary, the wire size means nothing. There's not enough wire in a pedal to cause any problem. I suspect that the pedal is either wired wrong inside, or that you may have it plugged in wrong. Try swapping the wires at the pedal to see if that clears up the problem.
Very few players care for the gear-drive pedals, as they don't have a nice smooth feel. If the string slips, try coating it with some wax by rubbing it with a candle, and also, to make sure the pot turns free; oil it. |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 4:46 pm
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Hey Gary. I also use that same preamp you've got. I know that last week you were raving about the tone. I wonder what may have happened since then. One thing I've noticed is that there are some rooms that just have unfriendly acoustics. Maybe you're set up in a different place than you were before. Maybe the humidity is making your speakers sound soggy? I don't think that the potentiometer is likely the culprit. There may be a slight difference between a 250k and a 500k pot, but the tonal difference from a Canadian and a Mexican pot would likely be pretty negligible. A 250k pot in the Revelation pre's loop will sound slightly mellower than the 500k, but it's quite subtle. It sounds like you're having a more serious issue somewhere else. Have you switched speaker cabinets? Are you using good speaker wire? Is your AC power good?
Can you describe what you're hearing or not hearing that bothers you currently? Have you checked all your wires? Are you using Black Widows? Are they in good shape? If they're old BW's, sometimes they get stuck from the old melted foam getting caught in the voice coil gap, and that can sound terrible. Is your bass response good? Are you getting any distortion?
My suggestion is to sit and set it up just like you had it when you were happy with the sound. Then just play for 20 minutes and don't touch anything, just play. I find that I can't really get a decent tone until my right hand is warmed up and picking the strings well. Since that's where tone begins, make sure you're in the "zone" before you try to use the gear to fix it.
Please keep us updated.
Brad |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2006 12:11 pm
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| Sho~Bud --Sho~Bud --Sho~Bud . Now that i have fixed your sound problem just find you one and keep it !!!!!!!!! G.P. |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2006 7:40 pm
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| Brad, the black gum that can get in the voice coil gap is easy to remove. I tried using lacquer thinner, no dice. took the amp outside and used gasoline, no dice. I was about to give up but then I tried rubbing alcohol. Works great and will remove the junk. Maybe this can help someone. That foam that powders over years of age can sure make a mess. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 7 Jul 2006 2:03 am
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I've found the "set it and forget it" approach works best. I have my basic settings and rarely deviate from that, no matter where I'm at (and when I'm on the road it's a different place every night).
Years ago I found out that if it doesn't sound right and you start screwing with the controls that eventually you will come back to your original settings.
One other thing. If my sound starts to sound "bad" or "different" it's time for new strings on the guitar. |
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Rick Johnson
From:
Wheelwright, Ky USA
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 7 Jul 2006 5:18 am
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| One thing I have noticed in the summer time playing in your house, having a ceiling fan or any type of fan in the room can make your sound different. It's the blades in the fan spinning around that plays tricks on the sound not the motor. I had one fan with 5 blades spinning around above me that made my guitar sound like it had tremelo. |
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Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 7 Jul 2006 5:37 am
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Jack's advice is worth its weight in gold. It took me many years to arrive at that same conclusion. There is a school of thought that one should alter tone settings so that you hear "your sound" at all times. To paraphrase Mr. Bradbury, here there be dragons.
| Quote: |
| People like John Hughey for example and others seem to sound the same anywher in the Country and at any time. |
I'll bet if you asked John he'd tell you that he thought his guitar sounded slightly different at all those gigs. And that some sounded good and some not so good.
It's not possible to duplicate exactly the sound you get in your living room or rehearsal hall when playing in a club or concert. Your environment changed, the temp/humidity changed, the room reflections changed. Like Jack, I'll make a minor tweak to compensate for some of those issues but my basic settings remain the same. I spent years playing different environments every night and at first tried to match the EQ to what I heard in my head. That was like a dog chasing its tail.
All of which does nothing to explain why in a given situation (with no change in gear or location) things sound great one day and crappy the next. I tend to agree with Donny that our ears play tricks on us. I've no idea why. But it has happened to me enough times to convince me it's a real but thankfully infrequent problem. I've learned to just block it out.
Find the tone that you like and then leave it for a while, no matter that it might sound different on days with an "R" in them or phases of the moon. Make any changes only after you've become accustomed to your gear in all situations and environments. Frequent changes will leave you frustrated and ChasingTheBeast. |
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Gary Steele
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2006 9:23 am
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After a few days it came back good. I think the humidity has a big part in this. Thanks for all the input.
Gary. |
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Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
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Posted 7 Jul 2006 9:45 am
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| I've often noticed that if I am physically tired or just stressed I can never get a sound out of my equipment that I am satisfied with. The guitar will sound slightly and incorrigibly out of tune despite what the tuner says and no amount of fiddling with EQ will produce a really pleasing tone to my own ears. I'm sure that factors such as humidity, room acoustics and maybe even barometric pressure have an affect on the sound of your gear, but I believe that quite often the problem is with your own perception. |
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LARRY COLE
From:
LANCASTER, OHIO, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2006 2:32 pm
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Yep it's the humidity. You are sweating on the strings too much.
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Playing For JESUS,LC. WILLIAMS U12,SHO-BUD PRO1,CARVIN TL60,GIBSON LES PAUL CUSTOM,YAMAHA L-10A ACOUSTIC,ROLAND JW-50 KEYBOARD,G&L AND BC RICH BASS'S
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2006 3:46 pm
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Larry you ''Quack ''me up . G.P.
Sho~Bud Pro-ll Custom --Sho~Bud L.D.G. Two Nashville 400 ,Fender Vibrosonic ,Tele ,Peavey Foundation Bass . Making a joyful noise on an instrument of ten strings to the Lord .Best guy that i have ever played for . Gary . [This message was edited by Gary Preston on 07 July 2006 at 04:50 PM.] |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2006 5:57 am
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Actually, the weather plays a major role in changing your sound...air pressure, humidity and temperature have a profound effect on how sound will travel through the air...not to mention that our ears perception of audio really does change from day to day.
I know, I know...more of that scientific junk messing with our heads...sorry, but you chose to play this contraption and chase that tone ghost!!!  |
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