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Topic: Los Angeles Hilton vol pdl user wanted |
John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 4 May 2006 8:26 am |
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I'm borrowing a Goodrich LDR2 volume pedal from my great friend Tom Bradshaw, and would like to A/B it with the current Hilton vp (I'm buying one or the other this year). Anyone in Southern California who has the Hilton, and who'd like to visit me in my San Pedro home studio for some testing, please email me direct. I'll be playing a Mullen and Carter through a NV400 and a Webb, seeing what sounds best. You can bring your rig, too, if you like.
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E9 lessons
Mullen D-12/Carter SD-10/Webb amp/Profex II+Lexicon MPX-110 OR Line 6 Pod XT
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 4 May 2006 8:36 am
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| John, I know you will want to do your own testing no matter what I say, but, I just went with the Goodrich LDR2 after trying both. JE:-)> |
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Jim Ives
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
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Posted 4 May 2006 10:02 am
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John,
You can borrow my Hilton if you'd like.
Jim[This message was edited by Jim Ives on 04 May 2006 at 11:03 AM.] |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 4 May 2006 1:26 pm
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John, in an earlier FS position I worked in research forestry. I learned the trick to successful research is to do your evalutation, then document two sets of results, one for Goodrich, and one for Hilton 
Really just kidding folks.... sounds like a great idea, and I'd be interested in the results.
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Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 4 May 2006 3:36 pm
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I have a Hilton but I've played through a Goodrich at the Carter booth in St Louis. Both sound about the same and if I went on sound only it would be a toss up.
But, the "innards" are quite different between the two and as an Electronics Tech and Amp Tech the Hilton's design is far superior. |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 4 May 2006 4:24 pm
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If you haven't thought of it yet, use that home studio (I'm assuming that you have a recorder). Even a cheap cassette deck will work.
Set up the gear and record about 4-5 minutes of you or anyone playing something. Then switch the volume pedals and without changing anything, especially mic position, record the same stuff over again.
Now you have two copies you can listen to and REALLY compare, instead of just going off of memory and the way that you "think" it sounded. I did this one time with two different pickups. While they both seemed to sound OK when I was playing, when I listened back there was a definite difference.
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Artie McEwan
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 4 May 2006 7:30 pm
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| I went back and forth between the LRD and the Hilton for a week on a gig--alternating sets. I went with the Goodrich cause it sounded just a little sweeter to my ear. Been using it for over a year with no problems... They are both fine pedals, though. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 4 May 2006 10:06 pm
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Thanks for the input, everyone. Artie, I'll be doing just that, taping my playing on my Tascam cassette deck, then seeing what is revealed at playback.
Jack Stoner, are you an Amp Tech with the knowledge to understand the "under the hood" differences? Is the infrared basis of the Hilton superior to whatever the Goodrich uses?
I'm still a little wary of any pedal that plugs in, I suffered with the old Edwards light beam pedal for years, not knowing how much tone it sucked out until I bought my first Goodrich. I know neither of these VP's will do that, but I'm pitting them against my best and cleanest Goodrich.
I'll announce the winner when my testing is done.
Jim Ives, I'll take you up on your offer! Is your Hilton the latest model? Thanks. Let's schedule that. If you'll come down here to my place for testing, I'd gladly offer a free lesson for your troubles, if that's of any interest to you. Bring your Zum, too, let's have the Mullen and Zum and my Carter all go head to head! |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 5 May 2006 2:11 am
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I don't have much on the internal operation of the Goodrich but it is not the "infrared" approach that Keith uses. But, that is standard Goodrich to keep everything as secret as possible. I've seen the insides of many Goodrich products and every one had some component part numbers obliterated. If you look inside a Hilton there is nothing "hidden".
One big plus with the infrared is that daylight has no affect on it. I've seen two posts, on here, about problems with the Goodrich pedal when playing outdoors in bright sunlight.
I also know the components that Keith is using are the "high end" components - nothing was spared. Same way with his power supply/regulation (what is inside the pedal) - it is engineered to the point it's almost "overkill" just to make sure it's reliable.
The problems with the old "light beam" pedals have been eliminated. You don't have to concerned about that. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 8 May 2006 10:41 am
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Jack, is the Goodrich LDR, then, just an updated light beam pedal? And is that inherently inferior to infrared?
I do have both loaner pedals arriving soon, so with some friends I'll be A/B'ing both, and will file a full report here, or probably in a new thread, or both. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 9 May 2006 2:08 am
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John, I can't answer that as I haven't been into the electronics on a Goodrich. There are none in this area and no one that plays at our Florida Steel Guitar Club jams has one (the ones that have electronic pedals all have Hilton's). But the "LDR" designation would suggest it uses a "Light Dependent Resistor" amd if that is true (and I don't know that it is - just an assumption) it is not the old "light beam" approach but LDR's have been around since at least the 60's.
The Hilton approach is patented, according to Keith and the Hilton was the first to have the 3 adjustment pots for tone, max volume and "turn off" point. |
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 9 May 2006 8:08 am
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| I'd be interested in attending this VP shootout, even though I'm strictly a passive user. (who knows, it might change my mind) |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 9 May 2006 12:10 pm
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Both loaner pedals have been arranged for. McDuffie, I have 2 co-testers already joining my in my teeny studio, so I'm afraid I can't squeeze more steel guitar scientists in there, I'm sorry. But I'll be testing both against each other, and both against my cleanest pot Goodrich, and full reports will be filed back here.
I also hope to get hold of a laptop that we can record directly into for purest sound. My Goodrich pedal had always been fine (and still is) until a session recording direct into a PC, when the least little scratchiness became abhorrent. So we'll see how all pedals fare under those conditions, hopefully.
Jack Stoner, thanks for all the input. |
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Dean Parks
From:
Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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Posted 9 May 2006 1:04 pm
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John-
It might be good to have a Black Box buffer amp to try with the pot pedal... part of the sound of both light pedals is the buffering.
Also, check for the shape of the volume "ramp", or whatever you call it.
-dean-[This message was edited by Dean Parks on 09 May 2006 at 02:07 PM.] |
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Mike Fried
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 10 May 2006 3:55 pm
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| Hi John, my old friend, I've been using the Hilton pedal for over a year now and couldn't be happier with it. I was really skeptical about using an active pedal right up until I first plugged it in. Aside from the silky-smooth feel and response, it improved the string separation and low-end definition of every steel I've played through it. I can't speak to the Goodrich version, but the Hilton is worth every penny I think, wall-wart and all. |
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Dean Parks
From:
Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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Posted 10 May 2006 3:58 pm
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| John, one other thing. Would you check and see which pedals do or do not stay parked when you lift your foot? |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 10 May 2006 9:57 pm
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Dean, the tests you request are no problem; just give me time to get an engineering BS, perhaps a Masters while I'm at it...!
I simply want to know if there's a discernible audio difference/advantage between the 2 volume pedals; both are highly touted here on the Forum. But I'm the curious sort who hates to part with money without a ton of research.
Mike, thanks for your Hilton thumbs up. How you doing in Nashville? Tell Bobbe you need a raise and I said so. Tell Gary, too.
Jack Stoner: where's the thread with the info about daylight affecting the Goodrich pedal? |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 10 May 2006 9:58 pm
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Hey Jim Eaton,
So what made you choose the Goodrich vs the Hilton in your testing? Inquiring minds must know. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 11 May 2006 1:57 am
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The comment about the daylight affecting the Goodrich was about a year and a half ago (plus or minus). I dont recall the title of the thread - it wasn't about the daylight affecting, just a comment that someone made that had a Goodrich.
BTW, my comments are more as a (retired) amp and electronics tech. I tend to look at the technical as the number 1 requirement for gear. As I said before, I couldn't really tell a difference in tone between the two.
I take the same approach to steel guitars - there are some that I wouldn't even consider if I were looking for a new guitar (I'm not) just because I don't like the mechnaical design - not because I don't like the sound of the guitars. |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 11 May 2006 8:13 am
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I think they both are fine units sound wise, in fact I could not "hear" any difference between them tone wise. Both sounded better than my "Pot" pedal and I have used a Goodrich pedal for a good long time and except for the "pot's" wearing out, they have always been high quality products IMHO.
So, in the end I'd say Brand Loyalty was the final reason I went with the LDR2.
JE:-)>
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Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons SD-12PP 3/5
Zum SD-12 5/5 - 91'
76'Session 400
86'Nashville 400
06'Nashville 112
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 11 May 2006 8:29 am
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"Also, check for the shape of the volume "ramp", or whatever you call it. (dean parks)"
Dean, that is called the taper of the pot/pedal. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 16 May 2006 7:28 pm
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Just got both volume pedals, should do the testing this coming weekend. I hope to find that I like both, maybe just a personal preference thing as to which to use. But me and a couple of steel-playing pals will be as objective and scientific in the evaluation as we can.
One question: the Hilton has the expected "Off Point" and "Volume" knobs on the bottom plate; but there's also a "Tone" knob in the middle. Anyone have the scoop on that? Should testing be done with tone at its highest frequency?
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E9 lessons
Mullen D-12/Carter SD-10/Webb amp/Profex II+Lexicon MPX-110 OR Line 6 Pod XT
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 17 May 2006 5:26 am
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I remember that thraed about sunlight affecting causing problems. The solution was to put a towel over your foot.
If possible, please try a direct sunlight test with both pedals. I have a Hilton, and never had problems. Never tried a Goodrich, except for the pot pedal, which I still use.
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 17 May 2006 5:54 am
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Joey, thanks for the link to the thread about sunlight's effect on the Goodrich LDR. We'll try to test for that.
I'm open to suggestions for the testing procedures. Post your suggestions here, or email me direct.
Here's my current thinking on what I'm testing for:
Basic procedure: record the same song using each vp (Hilton; Goodrich; clean Goodrich pot pedal); record straight into ProTools with NO pedal, then with each pedal; with effects, then without effects; then do the same test playing through a NV400 amp, maybe also my Webb amp; add a Black Box to the testing if anyone locally can loan me one. George L .155 cords will be used for all testing.
We'll record all tests, perhaps even make the disc available as sound files for the curious amongst you.
My partners in this project will be renowned steel and keyboard player Skip Edwards (Dwight Yoakam, Lisa Haley, The Hellecasters, Buck Owens, a jillion other artists he's worked with), and my buddy Silvio Bello.
- smoothness of physical pedal travel on both
- does tone change with volume going up or down?
- are there tonal differences between them? What? Is there a tone "winner"?
- compare tone, pedal action and quietness of both to my cleanest Goodrich pot pedal
- are both equally silent when recording direct to ProTools on a PowerBook? Compare this to the pot pedal, too.
- does bright sunlight or artificial light affect either pedal? Based on older SGF threads, we expect so on the Goodrich, unless design changes have recently been made.
- do the extra controls on both seem handy, hard to use, overkill? Both have little settings on the bottom of the pedals, I believe.
Maybe I need to start a Consumer Reports just for steel players?
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E9 lessons
Mullen D-12/Carter SD-10/Webb amp/Profex II+Lexicon MPX-110 OR Line 6 Pod XT
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