expanding my Johnson...

Andrew Waegel · From: Berkeley CA USA

No, this isn't a spam about manhood pills - I have a Johnson made-in-china tricone and I've become obsessed with adding two strings to it so I can play it more like a non-pedal steel guitar because i love love love the sound of those three cones now that I've upgraded them to a new set of Nationals.

I've build a dobro with the Resophonic Outfitters kit so I have it in my head that 'all i need to do' is get a new neck and fretboard assembly (the sale length seems identical), take the old neck off the Johnson, fit on the new one, probably get a new 8 string tailpiece too, slot a new nut and bridge for 8 strings, and away I go.

My question (besides 'am i nuts to do this?' which i am, but hey man, i have a vision) is, has anyone out there taken the neck off one of these Johnson guitars? Is it possible to do without wrecking the whole thing? There's a lot of stuff down there at the neck-body joint and it's not clear to me how it's attached, but I bet ease of disassembly wasn't a priority for the designers.

thanks,
- Handy Andy

Larry Phleger · From: DuBois, PA

Before you change the neck around, check to see if the wider bridge will fit in the space under the cover plate of your guitar. Some modification may be needed there as well.

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

I saw & played a couple of Beard "conversion" guitars at the convention in St. Louis. These were a couple of 6-string FlintHill resonators that had been converted to 7-string and 8-string models, respectively, w/o changing neck or fingerboard.

For the 7-string, normal string spacing was maintained by using a wider nut (shaped like a trapezoid, bigger at the top) and a wider bridge saddle. An extra slot was cut into the middle of the tailpiece for the extra string. A 7th tuner was added at the 12 o'clock top-center position on the peghead. Pretty minor modifications, and it played nicely.

The 8-string model was similar, but the string spacing was a bit tighter.

Might be food for thought...

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

I don't see why you would need a wider neck. Why not try a nut that is wider than the neck?

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

If the 1st & 8th strings stick out past the sides of the neck because of a wider nut, the strings are very difficult to see.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I played a 8 string at the Beard booth in St Louis, I thought it was a real Beard and asked how much expecting around $2,800.
He said $800.. I was floored.

He then explained it is an import with Beard parts, so it is cheaper.
But I had no clue while I played it for 15 minutes.
I want one now of course.
So it ain't that expensive to just buy one.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 23 September 2004 at 04:52 PM.]

Andrew Waegel · From: Berkeley CA USA

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I want a wider neck to keep the string spacing wide enough to do slants - the scale length is 25.5" so they're hard enough already.

I thought about using a wide replacement nut and letting the other two strings dangle over in space, but it gives me the creeps for some reason.

If it looks too daunting to take the neck off I will probably just add a single extra string to the neck I've got, but first I'll get in there with some tools to see what I can see.

Also it looks like I'll have to alter that metal handrest too - it's really close to the lowest string even now.

- Handy Andy

[This message was edited by Andrew Waegel on 20 September 2004 at 03:16 PM.]

Jeff Watson · From: Anza, CA. USA

I converted a Regal into a 7 string with the wider nut & bridge approach (center hole on existing tailpiece). I removed the original tuners, filled the holes, then redrilled the headstock to accept mandolin tuners (4 to a side). Works great.

Bob Hickish · From: Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.

Handy Andy
The fret / finger board that stewart Mac.
has for there reso kits is 2-1/2 inches wide & 24 frets
and works real well for 8 string Reso's .
http://www.stewmac.com/
BH

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

Could you just add a nice wood border-strip (¼-round molding) along the top portion of the neck on either side to make it wider? Just a passing-thought. Maybe I should have let it pass¡

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“Big John” Bechtel
(2)-Fender ’49–’50 T–8 Customs
Fender ’65 Reissue Twin-Reverb Custom™ 15”
click here
click here click here click here

Harry Sheppard · From: Kalispell, MT USA

Andy,

I have a squareneck Johnson tricone as well and also have thought about adding a string or two. The Stew-Mac necks might not work. I opened mine up and there is a maple stick inserted into the back of the mahogany neck at the body joint. It runs the entire length of the body to the tailpiece. This neck stick has posts and pads between the top pan where the cones sit and the back of the guitar. I believe there are screws under the fretboard markers above the 12th fret which hold the fretboard to the top (there is a thin piece of plywood directly under the fretboard hidden under the top. There are also screws holding the cone pan on the top to the neck stick. I did not see any other screws or bolts holding the neck to the body.

The 6th string on my guitar is also very close to the bridge cover so it might be tight getting 8 strings but 7 should fit fine. I saw a picture of a 6 string National converted to a 7 string by adding a single banjo tuner to the center of the headstock. Kind of funky looking but funtional and fairly easy to do. Let me know if you find a good solution as I have been wanting to convert mine to a 7 string for a while.

Harry

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Anybody else played one of the Beard import 8 strings? And BTW, Andrew, kudos on the best thread title this year...

Travis Bernhardt · From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

I like John's idea of just adding a bit of something to the sides of the fretboard so that the strings don't appear to be hanging in space (is this how Bill Hankey's "3D fretboard" works? I've never seen a picture...). Then all you need is a wider nut and bridge, and a new tailpiece. Oh, and two new tuners and a drill to add two new holes to the headstock.

-Travis

Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

There are a few possibilities, heck, if your going to make a whole new neck, why not a short scale? Why not get your slants REAL easy?

This is an interesting idea, I love 8 strings on reso! It has a whole other character.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Gregg McKenna · From: South Windsor, Connecticut, USA

Howard, Why don't you just have a new nut (flared out on the top) to increase the nut width and give you a little wider spacing? (I do this all the time to increase string width on narrow necks like the Regal RD 75).

[This message was edited by Gregg McKenna on 23 September 2004 at 11:44 AM.]

Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

Hey Andy, torn it apart yet?

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

I agree that a wider nut (& wider saddle?) may be the most prudent thing to do. I'm just concerned about not being able to see the outside strings.

I have a Sierra 12 string lap. The neck is wide enough but the fretboard is narrower and looks like a 10 string fretboard. The 1st & 12th strings are very difficult to see.

Andrew Waegel · From: Berkeley CA USA

Hey all, I'm going to attempt to remove the old neck and make a new one, having decided that I don't want a frankenstein neck on this guitar.

I'm gonna take it apart this weekend to see if this is possible without wrecking the whole thing. Wish me luck, and I'll report back!

- Handy Andy

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I played a couple of the Beard's in St.Louis this year and was very impressed. I have a Gibson Hound Dog which I'm going to convert to a 7 string by adding that extra tuning key right in the center of the end of the headstock like the Beard was. A new nut and bridge should do the trick then. I use a G6th tuning on my resonators by dropping the low G and adding an E string in the 4th position. At one time I had an old ShoBro 7 string which was a G6th and I'd like to have that sort of set up again....Have a good 'un, JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Andrew Waegel · From: Berkeley CA USA

Hello all,

I've been terribly remiss about keeping you up to date on the project, largely because of an unexpected and faintly disturbing dalliance with banjos, but no more.

My Johnson tricone now proudly sports seven strings, and overall the operation is a success, though the result looks a little freakish. Some details:

Mainly out of laziness, I didn't remove the neck, though I bet I could, and I still might later so get more fretboard width.

So, I picked up a package of replacement tuners from Guitar Center, and picked a spot on the upper left of the headstock for mounting it. Turns out the headstock is too thick for the machine, so I had to route out a little reverse-plateau with my Dremel tool router base. If I didn't have that tool, the project would have stopped right there.

Next I popped the nut off with a block of wood, and replaced it with a standard nut blank from Paul Beard. I angled the top edge to match the nut on my other reso, and did my best to slot it with the lame files I have. Clamping this in place was a trick affair involving bungee cords - there must be a better way.

The new nut hangs over the edge of the fretboard by about 3/16" either way. A little weird but my (mostly successful) goal was to preserve the guitar's initial string spacing.

Next I reslotted the bridge insert, which I had earlier upgraded to a maple one also from Beard. Again it would help to have the right tool for the job and not 30 year old machinists' files.

I had to take off the handrest/coverplate to get to the bridge, and when I put it back the wider string spacing caused the low string to buzz against it, so I carved out a little space for it again with the Dremel tool. Just barely enough room, and it rules out an 8 string conversion without a big sacrifice in string spacing.

Finally, inspired by laziness again, I just used the existing tailstock and doubled up two strings in one of the holes. This looks like it's putting undesirable stresses on the bridge, so I may upgrade to an Allen tailpiece.

The result is very playable, and smooth sounding in the G6 tuning. My new tuner is actually much smoother than the 3-on-a-plates that came stock, so I may upgrade those too.

I'll see if I can remember to take and upload some pics soon.

Happy hacking,
- Handy Andy

Andrew Waegel · From: Berkeley CA USA

Hello,

Some pics of the seven string conversion:

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