what are some good amps?

Roger Pietz · From: Oregon, USA

OK trick question I know. I have a small fender 12 inch speaker stage 100 solid state. I have a Crate 50 tube amp 5112 VFX with one 12 inch speaker. Now I do have two Yamaha Pa speakers 15inch with Horns. I heard the Nashville 400 I think is awesom. I don't have the Williams yet so I don't know what will work best I did buy a Hilton volume control pedal. Any suggestions would be appreciated I only want top quality amps. Someone told me the solid state work better for the Pedal Steel. True, False?

Gary Glisson · From: munford, tn 38058

Evans with 15'' speaker or Webb with 15'' speaker

Top of the line!

gary

Roger Pietz · From: Oregon, USA

Thanks Gary, any special place to get these? Do I just cruise the net a look for the best prices. I thought maybe one of you folks out there might know of a special place to get the best price.

Clyde Lane · From: Glasgow, Kentucky, USA

Roger get a Fender Steel King. You will love it. By the way, I have a Williams D-10 and they are one of the best guitars on the market. Did you order mica or lacquer? I know you will enjoy it.
Clyde Lane

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Moved to the "Electronics" section of the Forum.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Try a Fender Steel King, or a Peavey Nashville 1000, either one is all the amp you will need for many years. IMHO, you don't need a boutique amp (to brag about) until your playing is something to brag about.

Addendum: Roger, how long have you been playing? Are you gigging? If you're just learning to play, just use your Fender Stage 100. I have a Stage 112 which I've even used on a couple of gigs. Not a great amp for steel, but not a bad one, either.

So many players out there think they gotta have the best of everything when they're starting out. They think it'll make a big difference. It doesn't.

Truth be told, "good enough" is good enough.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 23 April 2006 at 10:43 AM.]

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Just a thought,My session-400,session-400ltd,and NV 400 have been gathering dust since I got my NV-112.Most amazing little amp I've ever seen.If I would have had this amp 20 years ago,maybe my back would'nt be so screwed up.Bama Charlie.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

P.S.still bragging about the NV-112,I play 99.9% C6th,have been looking for a small amp that would not break up when playing those big fat C6th chords,tried several with 12 in.speakers,a fender with twin 12's,thought it was a lost cause until I got my NV-112.Now I can crank it up and it does not sound like I'm using a fuzz pedal.Clear and clean as a bell.

David Doggett · Posted 22 Apr 2006 9:41 pm

Roger, for steel guitar with a volume pedal, you need an amp with a lot of volume that plays very clean, even at its highest volume levels. It's not so much that you will play the amp loud, rather the extra volume gives you sustain with the volume pedal. It needs to play very clean because even the slightest distortion will sound bad with the sustained chords and harmony you get with a steel and a volume pedal. It is easier and less expensive to make a solid state amp that plays clean. And high volume solid state amps are smaller and lighter than tube amps. So they are very popular with steelers. However, some of us also like the warm vintage sound of clean playing tube amps like the '70s silverface Fenders. The weight issue can be handled by having the amp in a head cabinet, with a separate speaker cabinet (or two).

Steels are solid-body instruments with bridge pickups, and so they have lots of highs and tend to sound too bright with tweeters. So most steelers prefer 12" or 15" guitar speakers rather than PA speaker systems with tweeters.

Unless there is a steel oriented store in your area, you will need to order a steel amp from a steel shop such as Carter in Dallas, Scotty's in St. Louis, or Bobbe Seymour's Steel Guitar Nashville. You can also get good used steel amps here on the Forum. Ebay and other internet auctions can be risky for beginners. You're in more trustworthy hands here on the Forum.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

Mark Cohen · From: Calabasas, CA, USA

Roger:

I hope I don't sound obnoxious David: The volume pedal we use demands Gain from the amp, not necessarily volume (loudness). The gain is a matter of how loud the amp can get when the input is weak - like when your strings have faded out after picking them. Gain is usually easy to come by - just keep turning the amp up until it plays loud enough when the string sound has faded away. The volume, as you discuss it, is a matter of how loud the amp can get under the best of circumstances.

Most steel players like to be able to have a clean sound even over the other instruments in the band. This requires an amp with a lot of headroom - ability to play loud without distorting. The crucial factors here are amplifier power and speaker efficiency.

Speaker efficiency makes a huge difference in how loud your amp will get without distorting.

Roger: If you don't mind hauling around your present speakers, you would do well to consider getting a high power amp and a preamp so that you don't have to buy a new rig.

There are some cool solid state power amps out there, like the (discontinued) Peavey dpc750 or the Samson Servo 200 ($160). I haven't tried it myself, but the Peavey PV900 Stereo Pro Power Amplifier ($300) claims up to 300W per channel, which will give you all the room in the world to play clean and loud. If you do by a separate power amp, look for one that can deliver upwards of 150 Watts.

For preamps, a lot of folks like the Peavey Tubefex (no longer made), and the Digitech 2112 (no longer made). Both of these offer full effects, like reverb, chorus and delay, in compact units. The Rocktron Chameleon 2000 is a pretty nice alternative and can be had for <$300 new.

If you want a new amp, the consensus on this site is that you won't go wrong with the Peavey Nashville 112.

Happy steeling.

[This message was edited by Mark Cohen on 22 April 2006 at 11:32 PM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

"Roger, for steel guitar with a volume pedal, you need an amp with a lot of volume that plays very clean, even at its highest volume levels. "

That's not necessarily true. It completely depends on what style of music he's playing and what kind of tone he's looking for - both questions are so far unanswered.

For traditional country steel, yes - a squeaky-clean tone with a ton of headroom is desirable. But if you play country-rock, blues, rock, sacred steel or some other kinds of music a good tube amp with smooth breakup would be far more appropriate.

It also depends on where you play. If you gig, how large are the venues? Are the amps mic'd? For example, in small clubs a 500-watt SS amp might sound awful even for clean country, as you couldn't drive the speaker matched to that amp very well and your tone would be thin.

So really, it's impossibe to make qualified amp rcommendations without knowing what music the player plays, and where he/she plays it.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 23 April 2006 at 08:12 AM.]

David Doggett · Posted 23 Apr 2006 8:45 am

Mark is right. Steel with a volume pedal needs lots of gain to sustain the chosen volume as the strings die out. This can occur at low volume or high volume. I hesitated to use the word "gain," because many amps label the preamp gain control "gain," and cranking it up is typically associated with increased distortion. Power amp gain is referred to as "power," and that control is typically labeled "volume" or "Master Volume." It's really the power amp gain that we depend on for lots of clean headroom and volume pedal sustain.

There are many ways to get this - combo amps, separate heads and speakers, rack units with separate pre and power amps. And Jim is right that the amount of headroom one needs depends on the type of music, the size of the venue, and whether the speaker is miked through the PA. If you are only going to have one amp, it needs to be powerful enough for your biggest unmiked venue, and loud enough to compete in the stage volume if it is miked.

Solid state amps tend to be more even toned across their whole volume range, although many sound bad at top volume. But if all you want is clean, a clean tube amp can sound good over its whole volume range. It is mainly if you are after that top end bloom, creamy breakup and crunch that you really have to worry about using the smallest tube amp that gives that at the appropriate volume level for the style and venue. In their clean lower volume range there is less difference between solid state and tube amp tones. It is mainly at their top volume that their different breakup characteristics emerge. Some steelers deal with this by having a high power clean amp, and using stomp boxes or effects units if they want some grit and distortion.

Jim is right that different speakers sound different at different volume levels. But that is pretty subtle. And again, it is mainly the breakup characteristics of speakers at top volume that regular guitarists worry about. This is less important with steel, unless you will be wanting distorted rock and blues tones.

Hope you're not getting more information than you need. Amp and speaker tone is something electric guitarists and steelers can discuss 'til the cows come home. That's one reason there are so many choices.

Mike Winter · From: Portland, OR

Roger -- Come up to the jam in Canby next weekend. You'll get to meet a lot of the local players and they'll be more than happy to advise you, show you their gear, help you get started right, etc.

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Mike
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Blue Moon Highway
(Country Music...and then some.)
www.bluemoonhighway.com

John Fabian · From: Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Roger. Drop by Jubitz this coming Fri-Sat before you head out to that Jam in Canby.

I'll be using a Nvl 400 and a 112 Nvl on a pickup gig I have there.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

"You gotta have a lotta watts. At least a hundred fifty, or you're always gonna have to count on a PA"

Again, not to be argumentative - but without know what the guy is playing or what sound he's looking for that statement isn't necessarily relevant. Also, "wattage" has nothing to do with headroom or volume. It's a marketing tool. A 150 watt amp is only a couple decibels louder than a 100 watt amp., all other things being equal. Speaker effeciency is much more critical to volume than power - a 40-watt Pro Reverb with good speakers can bury a 100-watt (really 85 watt) Twin reverb with Utahs.

But all this is still irrelevant - you have to know what the player is trying to accomplish before recommending a "top quality" amp, or stating that tubes or SS are better.

Otherwise you're throwing darts in the dark.

Roger Pietz · From: Oregon, USA

Ok guy's heres what's up I have heard alot of different suggestions. I was raised playing country but I grew up in the san francisco bay area and during the late 60's and early 70's played rock music. Now I play classic rock with some coutry rock. But the sound I want to make from the Pedal Steel is from the heart and soul I do not read music but am good at hearing something and adapting my own style. If this helps I have a small Fender DSP 100 solid state amp as well as a Crate 50 Tube amp now these only have 12 inch speakers with the crate having a mesa boogie speaker put in it. So First I have to get my Williams finished which should be about 3 more weeks at the most red Mica finish D-10 I think. So that is where I stand I have heard about Nashville , Webb Peavey Fender Steel. When I become good enough to progress I will get the top of the line speaker set up I prefer a amp complete with head etc.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Roger. What Jim says is right in both cases.

I have a 4 ohm JBLK140 in my Session 500 that calls for an 8 ohm. The speaker must be more efficient than a standard BW8ohm because I didn't lose much power at all Db wise like I thought I would. So much so that I'm keeping it as a permamant rather than a spare. Being a Bass speaker I'm surprised at the highs, and of course it handles the lows very well. It was a freebue and I'm glad I kept it.

Headroom is indeed different with different amps. I can recall a couple tricked out Princetons that seemed to match my Session 500 in the higher ranges.

In my preference for the Nashville 400 over my 112, I was more convinced by the band I play with. They said that it had a much more defined, and beefier range, even on the E9 stuff. Maybe it's my playing, but I changed my mind on the 112s somewhat and use it on small gigs, and for recording.

Also not mentioned is the Marshall 1 and 2 12s amps. I'd like to hear more from guys that have used them for PSG too.

Hope to see you Fri.

EJL

Mickey McGee · From: Phoenix,Az

If you buy a NV112 your ears and your body will thank you-no BS, this is a fact!Play one,lift one,look at the price tag,take one home,you will be a happy guy.

Bill Stroud · From: Dresden, Tennessee, USA * R.I.P.

Roger you've got to try out the new tube/solid state Evans Amp, it's a killer weights in at 32 lbs with a 15" speaker has the new controls for chorus, flange, and add in reverb with a new control knob in the back, also controls how much effects you want. Check out their web site www.evansamps.com

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