what do "6th" tunings do ?

Ed Altrichter · From: Schroeder, Minnesota, USA

I play a Dobro tuned to A C E A C E and a National tri-cone tuned to D A D F# A D . I'm wondering about "C-6th" and what it does. Is there a big advantage in tuning to a 6th ? What is the purpose of that ? Is it to get broader range in a minor key, or what ? What about if one just tuned the DADF#AD tuning to DADFAD ? Would that accomplish the same purpose; or is it something different, altogether ? Does it have to be heard in order to be understood ?
I have ordered a lap steel guitar as well as the Jerry Byrd instruction material for a C6th tuning but haven't received either one yet, and I'm wondering just what is the deal about playing in C-6th ???

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Off the top of my head...

The C6 and other "6th" tunings like (G6 or A6) combine both the major and its relative minor in the straight-bar position. You could simply change the Dmajor tuning to a Dminor, or vice-versa, but you'd be getting one thing at the exclusion of the other. Of course, you could probably still get a lot of stuff by slanting, but I think that's where the 6th tunings make things easier.

From a single-note standpoint, the 6th note nicely fills the "big jump" between the 5th and root of a major chord. With the 6th in there, you have chord tones that are voiced no further than a major or minor third apart, which (I think) makes the single-note runs easier (more economical movement).

And for many of us, our steel heroes played a 6th tuning, so in order to emulate "their sound"...

I never really had an academic course in theory so there's probably a much better way to explain this.

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Here's an excellent article by John Ely that explains some of the reasons behind using one tuning over another:
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/tunings.html

The 6th tunings first evolved in the 1930s as a means for players to play the chords that were being written in the popular music of the day with fuller harmony than that available in major chord tunings - such as open D or A. In addition to giving you access to multiple voicings of major, minor, major 7th, 7th, diminshed and augmented chords, most 6th chord tunings will make single note runs accessible with less bar movement. You hear the characterisitic 6th sound in Hawaiian, Swing, and Western Swing music from the 30's onward. For Celtic, Bluegrass, Rock or Folk music, the 6th tone just sounds wrong and a tuning such as open G or D works much better. For Celtic music, DADGAD is popular because it leaves the tonality ambiguous - neither major or minor - which is appropriate for modal music. The bottom line? Sixth tunings are not "better" or "more sophisticated" per se, but will allow you to play certain styles of music with greater ease and more complete chord voicings. Of course, you always have the option to play less complicated voicings as well.

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 26 October 2004 at 01:08 PM.]

Wayne Cox · From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.

If you really want to get deep into what a basic 6-string C6th tuning can do, check out the forum archives for "C6th modal theory", by Denny turner. Warning! You could suffer from information overload after reading it!! C6th has some scale advantages that other tunings lack.
Denny Turner also has a website which explains C6th in great detail. On a simpler note; your basic C6th tuning contains a CMaj,CMaj6,Amin7,FMaj7 in open position. Further up on the neck,a minor pentatonic scale is easily played 3 frets up from the root position, and there is a good 7th scale down 2 frets from the root position. Oops,the basic C6th tuning I am referring to is (lo to hi) C E G A C E. Like ANDY says, it depends on the type of music you are playing,but C6th is great for Western Swing,Jazz,Traditional Country,or Blues, but there are probably better tunings for Hawaiian and Bluegrass.
Hope this helps.
~~W.C.~~

[This message was edited by perpetually confused musician on 27 October 2004 at 09:30 AM.]

[This message was edited by Wayne Cox on 27 October 2004 at 09:36 AM.]

Bill Bosler · From: Schwenksville, Pennsylvania, USA

Adding one thing to what Wayne said. The 6th tuning gives you all the notes but one (2nd) of the major pentatonic scale (mode) at one fret and in the correct sequence. The beauty of the major pentatonic scale is you can play it against its major chord (C maj. pent. against a C maj. chord for example) and it will fit no matter what the key of the song is.

[This message was edited by Bill Bosler on 27 October 2004 at 04:00 PM.]

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

The shortcut to navigating 6th tuning scales and chords via modal substitution. Don't be intimidated by the word "modes"; The 7 Mode names are NOTHING more than shorthand names for the 7 harmonic scales contained in the Major7 scale; And most Popular music west of Copenhagen and east of Honolulu use "only" 3 of the modes most of the time. Piece of cake in a very short but necessarily comprehensive lesson.

A lengthy and comprehensive SGF discussion with a gold-mine of info from Forumites.

Aloha,
DT~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 29 October 2004 at 09:07 AM.]

Ed Altrichter · From: Schroeder, Minnesota, USA

geez, what a lotta crap ! I'm stickin' to The Wabash Cannonbal on the Dobro !

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Ed, you must have a gig at Al's Steakhouse.

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Like it or not, Ed will earn more with Wabash Cannonball than Donna Lee!

------------------
http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff.

Joaquin Murphey solos book info and some free stuff : http://www.johnmcgann.com/joaquin.html

Steve Howard · From: High Ridge, Missouri, USA

Wayne,

Thanks for the post about Denny Turner's website. I went there and all of a sudden as a new steel player (but veteran guitar player) through that single website, I can now start applying some familiar logic to an unfamiliar tuning and limitations of one fret playing.

I actually just bought a pedal steel, but the back neck which is C6 is pedaless, so a lot of these techniques will apply there.

What is even cooler about this, the steel I just bought has to remain untouched until Christmas (wife's orders), but now I can tune my unused 6 string to C6, raise the nut, and I can get started on some of this stuff.

The great thing about these forums are that even though a lot of communication here is small talk to some extent (all about steels of course), now and then you can find a diamond in the rough. Thanks again.

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