What makes them different?

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

I have mulled this question over and over and think that it's about time I laid it out for the experts to give me an answer.

There are always people who admire musicians who have that special something that gives them an edge over others on certain instruments. Other than the few like Chet Atkins who have a distinct “ mechanical sound” that can be picked, what is it that gives the other gifted musicians that subtle something that makes them stand out from others.

I can pick out steelers like Buddy Emmons, Billy Cooper, Jerry Byrd, Leonard Zinn on the no pedal steels} and a few others; however, I still have tough time putting my finger on what exactly it is that I am hearing that makes their playing different from others. I have sat down and deliberately listened to Billy Cooper, then Buddy Emmons to find out if I could pick out what separated these two from others. I also sat and played one of Jerry Byrd’s and Leonard Zinn's recordings over and over again to see if I could pick out what exactly it was that they was doing that makes them stand out from others. Is it some hidden thing they have inside their musical brain or is it a well practiced style they have come up with?

Maybe someone else in here can lay some light on this.

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I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

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[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:30 PM.]

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Jim, I can play a guitar with the Chet Atkin's sound. I am not saying that I can play his style or even want to on a consistant basis.

It's people like Jerry Bird and so on who have their unique style or sound that I was asking about. I have heard people copy and play the Chet Atkin's style of tuning and picking and get Chet’s sound, however, I rarely hear anyone who can play three or four tunes in a row and be able to stay with Jerry Byrd's individuality on the steel.

Maybe I need to word the question differently to make it understood what I am trying to convey.

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I'm convinced that none of our "favorite" GREATS ever sat down and attempted to figure out "a style", aside from possibly Bud Issacs. I'm sure there "might be" others also, but for the moment I don't know whom they might be.
Like Jeff says, I believe they sat down to "PLAY THEIR OWN WAY", with whatever equipment they had at their disposal and whatever it was that they knew at that time. What came out and what we fans hear is what we fans attempt to classify as STYLE and many of us have attempted at one time or another, to duplicate this or that to one degree or another.
As an example...Jerry Byrd, et al, knows the neck of his guitar inside and out; what it's supposed to sound like "in his head";
what he's unwilling to accept; knows how to TUNE the GUITAR CORRECTLY......; willing to take musical challenges while being on the cutting edge; etc., etc.
The players MIND, HEART and SOUL must be in close harmony with his EAR and physical dexterity (sp?).... When some of us are at the earliest stages of our musical development, the inability to discern the diffence betwee Don Helms and Speedy West; or, Jerry Byrd and Leon McAuliff is a given.
After 5-10 years of active playing, that same inability to identify these various players by their style and/or signature sounds, suggests one might possibly be HEARING Challenged.

That's what "I" see from where I sit.

Jeff Strouse · From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA

I'd say both of the "hands" are the most important factors of what gives a player a sound...the equipment being secondary. Jeff broke it down very well..."the hands" includes all those categories he mentioned (pick attack, vibrato, movement between notes,etc).

Roy Thomson · From: Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada

Soul

Bob Markison · From: San Francisco, CA

I certainly agree with the insights given above, and I also think that beyond instrumental mastery, the unique great ones have somehow made the instrument vanish as music of universal quality appears. Like great orators, they have learned much more than language alone. There's a great humility underlying the dues that must be paid enroute to individual style. (Charlie Parker and John Coltrane practiced 11-14 hours per day on the way up. Lennie Tristano advised his students to practice 14-16 hours per day.) And there is also a matter of great trust that the masters simultaneously take thoughtful care of the music and the listener. Those old enough to remember the Nat King Cole Show many years ago can recall the intimate joy of listening to a great musical story teller by the fire. Tennessee Ernie Ford also warmly included each listener in the music (often featuring Speedy West and Jimmy Bryant). Without playing a note of music, Red Skelton brought himself straight into your heart. It probably begins with a heartfelt impulse to bring others up to an
high plane of shared creative process. It seems also that the masters have spent a lot of time listening broadly and deeply. I'll think some more on it, Les - good post. - Bob

Michael Devito · From: Montclair, NJ, USA

Jeff's list is a good one, but I find there's more to uniqueness than technique or technical. There's musical energy, personality, and an almost indefinable emotional "stance" each musician projects.

Examples: Leon McAuliff impresses me as bold, fearless and energetic. He's pure excitement and rythym. Dick McIntire comes across as very emotional to me, with an aching, romantic edge on especially slower songs. Incredible tone and technique, but also a deep, lasting feeling. Junior Brown has complete technical command. His fluency on steel is overwhelming, but it's the sardonic humor and sincere, sweet melodic touches that stick with me.

For me it starts with tone, but it's the personality that keeps me fascinated.

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

"I still have tough time putting my finger on what exactly it is that I am hearing that makes their playing different from others."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A helluva lot of practicing (when others were out playing baseball, etc.), a tremendous amount of dedication and also having been born with the right genes. JMHO.

Todd Weger · From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA

I'd say the instrument is secondary to the musician playing it. Coltrane would have been great playing any vehicle he chose. In his case, it was sax, but it could just have easily been guitar, keyboard, drums, violin, steel or kazoo. The musician in him would be expressed on whatever medium he chose to express it.

Jeff pretty much summed it up. It's not just one thing, but the combination of all of them. To me though, phrasing and touch are probably the biggest two when it comes to overall musicality. It's what you got to say, and how you say it, and that's what comes through in the best players, IMO.

TJW

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Todd James Weger/RD/RTD
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, E13); Melobar SLS lapsteel (open D); Chandler RH-4 Koa semi-hollow lapsteel (open G); Regal resonator (open D or G)

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Good thread! I agree with everyone's observations and I'd add that everyone plays their personality through their instrument. You can't help express who you are - especially on the steel, an instrument that responds with a real-time snapshot of the player's feelings, leveal of relaxation, etc. Carlos Santana observed that Wes Montgomery sounded like a "father" when he played and I can relate to that. He was a warm-hearted family guy and it came out on the instrument. Technical control is a mix of practice and one's innate central nervous system. For some people, the biological wall on technique is never going to be scaled no matter how much they practice. For others, they can reach advanced technical levels with much less practice than others might need. But beyond technique, playing a muscial instument at its best, can be outlet for our subconscious feelings. With the musicians who touch us the most, they are communicating feelings to which a large number of other people can relate IMHO. I find that this kind of communication doesn't happen every day but can occur in a surprising number of circumstances from a master artist in a concert, to blatantly commercial recording, to the guy playing in the subway who only knows two chords but plays those two chords with all his heart.

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 28 October 2004 at 07:38 AM.]

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 28 October 2004 at 01:09 PM.]

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

Wonderful thread. There are a lot of insights in the above posts I am still chewing on.
One additional idea:
I have also thought of different players' instrumental voices as their "accents". When you are trying to capture the essence of another player's sound, doesn't it feel just like you are trying to learn to talk like him/her? I can never duplicate anybody, but I always discover something in trying.

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