Why external reverbs

Paul Norman · From: Washington, North Carolina, USA

Why do you need an RV3 or RV5 when the
amps have a nice reverb?

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I have a bunch of amps and the only one I like the reverb in is the Webb 6-14-E. The others are ok but the Webb is smoother and deeper (more like the Fender tube reverbs) and just as enjoyable as my RV-5. I don't have a Steel King though so I can't comment on that.

Greg

Carl Williams · From: Oklahoma

Paul, IMHO, my RV-3 does the trick--just turn the dials to settings you like and you're good to go---I turn my NV400 reverb down to 1-2 as well. Of course I could only use the NV400's reverb but I like the reverb choices the RV-3 gives you. Likewise, you'll find forum posts on RV-3 vs RV-5 pros/cons but it's a personal hearing choice. Carl

[This message was edited by Carl Williams on 13 January 2006 at 01:17 PM.]

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

I prefer an external reverb because of better quality plus for live work you don't have to worry about spring clatter when the amp picks up stage vibrations

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Why? Because amp manufacturers are averse to spending an extra $50 to give us a really good reverb in their amps.

The fact that so many players find their amp's reverb sound "less than satisfactory" has really never been addressed here.

Maybe it's time?

My old Peavey Stereo-Chorus 212 has a pretty decent digital effects package built-in that I think should have been the absolute minimum for any new amp design, but they chose not to continue to offer it. The old spring units had a nice sound, but they can (and should) be replaced by newer technology, IMHO.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 16 January 2006 at 02:04 PM.]

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

I like having the ability to reach over and adjust the reverb as needed from song to song.

Also, it's nice to have an external reverb unit when playing on a bouncy stage or flat-bed trailer. Those reverb crashes can be very annoying.

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Mullen U-12, Evans FET-500, Fender Steel King

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

CRASHHHH!!!!

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

as kids before we knew any better, we'd play AC/DC's "For Those About to Rock" and just kick our amps when we wanted to make the cannon sound. "booooooom"

yeah, amp reverb is often so poor.
Fender and musicmans had good ones.... acouple other vintage ones...cant recall...

David Doggett · Posted 13 Jan 2006 9:37 pm

I have a bunch of old amps sitting around, and about half of them have reverbs that don't work, or never had any reverb. With my POD XT there are about 15 different reverb choices, so I don't have to worry about the amp's reverb. If your amp(s) has adequate reverb, then maybe there is no need for external reverb.

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

I have seen a lot of posts here from guys who like a spring reverb. I,for one,do not like it at all. I much prefer the sound I get from a delay unit. I think the majority of steel players have the same preference as I do. Some delay/effects units are noisier than others. As effects units go, I find that my Lexicon MPX 110 is the quietest thing I have used. I am sure there are others that are good also.

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www.phelpscountychoppers.com/steelguitar

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

For one, none of my amps have reverb.

Secondly, I (like many) prefer the sound of a good digital reverb to a spring reverb. Especially the POS reverb units that most modern amps have. I like a lush, long delay time, and the standard springs (even three spring tanks) in the reverb units don't cut it for me.

Third, if you like to play an overdriven tube amp where most of the driving is in the power amp, the reverb just gets really squirelly at high gain. It makes everything indestinct and squishy. I just turn off reverb usually, but if I am playing in a situation where I have a booster power amp, I put the reverb after the line out of my main amp, then the reverb is only on the 'booster' speaker. It sounds great this way, because you have your original tone (w/o reverb) and you can add reverb to taste. This sort of thing (adding reverb to the basic sound and then having fill amps just for the wet signal) is pretty common for rock and roll guitar gods like Eric Johnson, Steve Vai, etc.

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www.tyack.com

Paul Norman · From: Washington, North Carolina, USA

Thanks for all your answers.

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

Just my $0.02. I'm a newbie to pedal. This is also a question for Mike Brown, which I should post as a separate thread. I just today purchased a Peavey Nashville 1000. Kind of a hurried stop on the way to practice.
I found the internal reverb abysmal when I set up. I just turned it down and put my Electro Harmonics Holy Grail in the second effects loop and it was fine. The stock reverb seems to have a really short echo time (maybe a third of a second?) which adds a bupbupbupbup to the attack of the note. Is this normal? The Holy Grail pedal smooths it out and sounds perfect.
So if this is the way stock reverb is supposed to sound, it isn't worth it.

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Paul,

With a reverb sound as poor as you describe, it's quite possible one of the springs was broken. Happened to me in a MusicMan and I called Accutronics for a replacement and now it's good as gold.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

It is important to note that there is a huge difference between the many and varied spring reverb units - as Donny H. has noted here, most manufacturers install whatever is cheapest for them to use.

Like Dan T. I prefer a lush, long decay and for many years have used first a Lexicon PCM60, then the PCM 70, finally settling on the Yamaha REV7 "Strings" program as my standard, although I have continued to experiment with the TC Electronics M-One, which is a pretty stunning piece of gear in its own right. If one wants distinct delays, chorus or doubling effects a digital effects unit is necessary anyway regardless of whether or not one is happy with the spring unit in the amp.

When I got my old Randall Steel Man amp I found the choppiness of the stock 2-spring tank to be hugely annoying, but once I installed the Accutronics three-speirng long decay unit I ditched the digital gear completely for live shows - it sounds great and I no longer have to lug around an extra rack of toys (although I still often use them in the studio).

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I heard Randy Reinhart several times at the Den in Nashville playing through a Session 400 to which he had plugged in an external reverb tank in what looked like a cardbord shipping tube. It was about 5-6' long, and sounded *BIGGGG*.

On my main Session 400 that I played in the late 70s early 80s I bought a second 3 spring accutronics tank, cut it in half, and attached it to the tank in the Session, making a reverb tank that went the full length of the bottom of the amp (I attached the springs together). It sounded great, although it had a tendency to feed back in some rooms.

After all this talk of reverb, I must admit that on 90% of the gigs and 100% of the sessions I do, I use no reverb whatsoever.

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www.tyack.com

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Dan, you must realize that your own sound, while quite good, is not the typical steel sound heard on many records!

I have an old Peavey Stereo Chorus 212 that has a decent digital EFX package built in, but Peavey chose not to offer it in their new amps. With the technology available today, a continuously variable, analog-type control reverb and echo package (no stupid presets!) should be part of any new amp design. The old spring units were nice, in their day, but the electronic versions today sound just as good, and are superior in reliability, practicality, and versatility.

Geoff Brown · From: Nashvegas

I've always liked the reverb in older Fenders. The newer 3-spring boxes I don't care much for. They lack the depth of older 2-spring designs. Of the newer reverb amps, the best I've heard is in the Dr. Z MAZ 38-Senior. 38w class A amp with a fantastic reverb. Very different from the vintage Fender sound, this reverb is much tighter and more musical, if that makes any sense. Very deep sounding, without messing with the amp's character. It doesn't splatter like a Fender and it sounds good even at higher volumes.
For an electronic reverb, the EH Holy Grail is a fine sounding reverb pedal. I use it with my non-reverb amps and it does a great job. The cheaper model can be had used for $70-$80 on eBay. It has less features than the pricier model, but it works fine for me.
If I'm on stage, I usually prefer a good delay over a reverb.

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Dan, I've still got that Session 400 that I bought from you... the one with the tank & a half. I still use it sometimes...great sounding amp.

Nowadays I use a NanoVerb with my Nash1000,
using the fx loop, and I run the Nano's right output to a second Nash1000. The Nano is a much better sounding verb than the one that comes with the amp.

Mike Brown · From: Meridian, Mississippi USA

The 3 spring reverb that we use and have used in the Nashville 400, 112 and 1000 amps were the result of feedback from our endorsers and dealer input during the early '80's. Any type of effect built into an amp is subjective to the purchaser/users taste. Like spring reverbs, some will like it, some won't. It's not the "cheapest" method that a manufacturer uses, but is just one individual component that make up the total cost of the amp for a manufacturer.

It is obvious that the Peavey Nashville Series amplifiers have been the most widely recognized, best selling steel amps in steel guitar amp history and the price tag on them has been very attractive to the steel guitar community, that's why the Nashville 400 was manufactured for over 18 years!

Every player prefers his/her own effect. And many times, that same player will perform with either the on-board effect or an external stomp box. Everyone likes variety.

There is no doubt that the "ultimate" amplifier can be mass produced, but even though it is mass produced, will the buying public support the high dollar price tag that an "ultimate" amplifier would cost, ie; top of the line effects(which some players may or may not like), etc.. If this is the case, then there would be many boutique amplifiers that are mass produced. By the way, when does a product cross that line of being called "mass produced"? When several hundred are made at one time, or when the same production crew builds one hundred amps individually?

Let's face it, the MAJORITY of steel guitarists are "weekend warriors" like myself. The money a musician makes from his trade is not great, so a high dollar investment in an amp is not a sensible move since he/she might make $100.00 a night at best. Hmmmmmm......let's see, if you make a $100.00 per night and the ultimate amp costs perhaps $2000.00(plus tax....ha!) and your steel costs another $3000.00, that means that IT WILL BE AWHILE WHEN YOU MAKE A PROFIT!

Quote from Dave Grafe;
"as Donny H. has noted here, most manufacturers install whatever is cheapest for them to use." The MI market is very competitive, so I like to think of it as "a manufacturer chooses the best available at a price that is marketable".

As quoted from the 40th Anniversary Peavey MONITOR magazine, "Hartley Peavey began Peavey Electronics 40 years ago to assert that you can have quality, craftsmanship and value at fair and resonable prices". This philosophy is still in use here at Peavey.

Peavey Electronics is solely owned and operated by Hartley Peavey. So, that means that there are no board of officers to answer to or make decisions. It is something to consider when making a purchase. Thoughts for consideration.

Mike Brown
Peavey Electronics Corporation

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Mike, tell Hartley I have 2 Peavey amps, and 3 Fender amps, and I won't buy another (from anyone) unless it's got a good graphic EQ, and a good sounding Reverb/Echo unit built-in.

Whoever comes up first with what I want will get my money.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

My experience is that any amp with a spring reverb will eventually "loudly protest" when dancers or a heavy footed front man stomps across the stage. That's why I prefer an external electronic reverb that will engage only when I want it to.

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Mike Brown · From: Meridian, Mississippi USA

Gene, do people still dance? Unbelievable. Just kidding. I appreciate your input.

Donny, I will do just that. Heck, it is just about as inexpensive to use a digital reverb instead of a spring unit these days. Thanks for the support.

Mike Brown

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Nicely put mike, a concise explanation from the perspective of those stuck with making manufacturing and marketing choices.

Most of us here appreciate the understanding that is behind the session and nashville series amps, you can thank Hartley personally for me, it means that wherever I may be playing, I can order a decent steel guitar amp from any backline company.

While you're at it, you can also thank him for putting out the PA6A mixing console, talk about maximizing bang for the buck back in 1973 - he flat out changed the world!

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