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Topic: AW 2816 Recording Question |
Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2005 1:03 pm |
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I have read that the best way to record is dry. I agree and understand why. Well, I have 8 dry tracks recorded last week. Now what? I am trying to add external efx from a Lexicon.
Question: I don't know where to put the return signal. Should I record to a new track? say track 9? then 10,11,12,etc?
I have 6 tracks that I want to run thru my Lexicon, some for reverb, some for voice processing.
IS there a way to use the virtual tracks?
Surely I don't need 6 Lexicons!
I am trying to be a musician, and not a recording engineer. I have been a good boy and read the manuals, and searched FAQ, and tried and failed many times. I can get patched out to the LExicon, get the efx I want, but I don't know where to put the processed sound.
Any ideas?
Ron |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 27 Oct 2005 1:27 am
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HI Ron, I too use an AW2816..it is NOT an entry level unit but it is a great unit.Very advanced..but it can also be a tad confusing..and I keep the manuals handy..at all times...I have actually written out some of my own procedure SOP's to assist during recording and for referral...
I am assuming you are using the two on board effects already.
Using the external effects is possible but not an easy task for 6 channels. But it can be done. Historically when you use ANOTHER effect for a single channel (live sound) you feed it to the effect and back to another unassigned input. You can do this with OMNI and set the input assign to inputs 1 thru 8..
Send the processed signal back to one of the INPUT channels, not the recorded track channel.
I have done this with a single channel but not with multiple channels but I am pretty sure this can be done, but not without stress. You have 6 different channels and for mix down they need to stay 6 different channels.
Keep in mind this is a limited small portable workstation and what you are asking to do is a very professional task. You are asking it to perform a full blown studio funtion which is add yet another effect for each channel but yet keep it separated from individual channels .
When using a workstation unfortunatley you must at some point become even a modest engineer. Meaning, you have to know how to use your tools.
I read where you recorded 8 tracks dry..good..that is prefered but not mandatory. When using a workstation such as the AW series you should first plan your attack. if you have 6 channels that require a similar effect or the same effect, use the internal effect unless for some reason the internal effect you are looking for is not available on the two effects engines.? These units are pretty beefy with effects , EQ's and Dynamics etc and very easy to Edit, save and assign. I would find it hard to believe that there is an effect on the Lexicon that is NOT available on the AW 2816..but I guess it's possible.
I personally have modified and written several EFFECTS variations and saved them for regular use in the effects library.
Back to my point, I would assign 6 channels to a single INT effect, another channel to the 2nd INT effect and use the EXT feature for another.
OR assign the 6 channels to a stereo pair and run the ext effects just for those channels.
There are a few ways around this but EXT effects is NOT a strong point with many of these workstations.
You made an excellent analogy about DO I NEED 6 LEXICONS ? the answer is , yeh maybe..think of it this way..right now you have two separate on board effects units which are part of the mutiplexing and CPU operating system and available for 16 IND channels each...that may be like 32 Lexicons...
These units are now approx 5 years old and I sure hope that the next life cycle will make these types of things a tad easier. BUT..these AW2816/AW4416 systems, are light years ahead of most of the units from there ERA...hands down..these are great units..
Plan your moves within the confines of the unit..record some channels with effects..theres no rules against it..the unit is a tool..with some restricitions...
I wish too that the EXT sends were easier to
use and when I asked Yamaha Support ( 714-522-9000 ) about it they kinda agreed and laughed and then said, yeh , if they engineered that into the CPU OP system it would not be $2000 anymore !
Call Yamaha support and run it by them..then let me know what they said...
all in all though..this is a remarkable unit..I am now doing some tracks for a friend who lives 800 miles away..he sent me his tracks on disk, I loaded them , I'm fooling with them and then I'll send them back, and they never left the track DOMAIN...
Before I purchase another workstation, I will call the Manufacturers support line and this will be the number 1 question, about external effects applied to IND channels. The second question will be if the unit can slow down/speed up the meter without effecting pitch. The AW units can do this meter/pitch thing but 1 channel at a time. Otherwise it's change the speed and the pitch at the same time.
remember , this is a 14" x 14" piece of plastic..with a bunch of stuff inside...for less than $2 grand new.. I paid $900 used from a guy who couldn't figure out how to use it, the manuals were still sealed..it had 3 min. on the hard drive.
This is REAL common with the Yamaha and Roland systems...folks buy em for $2500, bring em' home, start there home grown CD projects..and....uhh..NADA..
a month later..EBAY ....NO RESERVE....
20 years ago all the stuff in this plastic box would have cost about $25,000 .
plan your moves..meaning..you must become an ENGINEER..
sorry
t
ps, don't forget to Optimize !
and don't be afraid to record a channel or two with EFFECTS..thats up to you..[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 27 October 2005 at 04:46 AM.] |
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 27 Oct 2005 3:01 am
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| I agree with what Tony has to say. I've been using a Roland VS1680 for 5 years now and have had a ball with it. I've been in recording studios since the early 70's doing steel overdubs and have always envied the control and power of those big studios. Now with these boxes, it's all available for us for around a couple of grand. There's definitely a learning curve involved in the boxes, but as steelers, we're used to it. Most of the info you'd need to know is on the Internet for free anyway, so get at it! |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2005 5:17 am
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Great advice, Tony.
I, too, use a 2816, and am very happy with the quality, although figuring how to use the unit can tax the brain. I recorded an Old Timey band with three mikes into the 2816, and my recording puts to shame the band's multi-miked extravaganza they did at a local high-end studio. The 2816 is a good sounding machine.
The new Yamaha 24-track DAW has USB, which would be nice for transferring to and from computers.
(25 years ago, all the stuff in the 2816 would have cost you $50,000.)[This message was edited by Alan Kirk on 27 October 2005 at 06:19 AM.] |
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Scott Appleton
From:
Ashland, Oregon
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Posted 27 Oct 2005 8:19 am
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With a small unit like that you would be best advised
to get the sound on each channel ready to mix. This
way will give you all you need to make a great recording. The early recordings were all done that way and sound great to this day. On mix down you can add the Lexicon.
------------------
Mullen S12 Almost Mooney
71 Tele, Regal 45
Sho Bud S10 NP
Line 6 Flextone 3 + JBL D130, Acoustic 165 100 W all tube EV 12, Nash 112, digitech 2101 FX |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 27 Oct 2005 11:47 am
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Actually Alan Kirk (a few replies above) was my first "go to" resource on this unit. He helpled me with some basic questions the first week or two I had it.
Many thanks Alan..you gave me a good head start...
And I had the price wrong..I said the stuff in the box was worth $25,000..Alan is correct once again..the accumulated price for all this stuff is closer to $50K..
concerning getting the sound you want on each individual channel, thats ok if you are working with a VERY limited unit.The ideal thing is to record everything DRY and let your EARS do the listening thing at the end..when all channels are spoutin' the frequencies at the same time....but you do require a full flexible unit to do this. These Yamaha's are close but not totally there ..
Close enough for Govt. work as they say...
t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 27 October 2005 at 12:59 PM.] |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2005 5:16 pm
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Thanks so much for the replies. You have all helped me get "shorted back to graound". Meaning, I need to lower my expectations and plans. I have use of a PCM 81 and of course I want to use all that it has. Well, truth is, this particular project was recorded live, and the sound will never be studio quality.
Tony, I spent some time with the folks at tech support and Robert answered my most pressing question. After I external-process the sound of a track, must I record it to new track? The answer is yes.
I will be pitch correcting the lead singer and harmony singer thru an Antares ATR1, then to the Lexicon to thicken the voice. The two tracks will come out of chnls 4 and 5, one at a time, and will go to Omni outs, and come back in Ch 1 and 2, to be recorded on tracks 12 and 13.whew!
I will lower my expectations and use the internal reverb and delay for the guitars. The internal reverb for vocals is satisfactory, but not as juicy as the Lexicon, but ten times easier.
I gotta go practice sometime.
This Forum is the greatest.
Ron[This message was edited by Ron Randall on 27 October 2005 at 06:25 PM.] |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 28 Oct 2005 2:22 am
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uhh..Ron..I thought you didn't want to be an engineer ?
You are performing some very advanced recording techniques there buddy...
you have got it down..
now think of this..
Most of the Workstations cannot accomodate what you are doing....not even close...
Glad you had good success with the support line, I have called them 2 or 3 times and they were great...
I would like to see a 24 track AW Yamaha with a bit more ease on the EXT's or perhaps 4 Internal effects engines as standard .
by the way Ron, which Lexicon unit are you using ? I've been in the "BUY A LEXICON" mode for a week or two now..and ready to hit the BUY IT NOW button....
good luck
t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 28 October 2005 at 03:52 AM.] |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Oct 2005 10:51 pm
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Tony,
Thanks for the reply. I was guessing that what I am doing was fairly common. Perhaps not. My learning curve has been steep. I can do my own rhythm tracks, and tunes. This was my first attempt at recording a live performance and mixing it down.
I have a PCM81. Check Lexicon website.Check Ebay. I use the lush reverb/delay/chorus effects the most. Lexicon has a Go knob setting and a Pro knob setting. The Go knob will let you adjust the simpler stuff. If you need to, one can edit every parameter.
There are ROM cards that you can keep your efx on, and one can buy ROM cards from Lexicon, with designer presets. I found some real keepers this way.
Consider a PCM80 (an earlier model) It is highly regarded. The PCM70 is a keeper and the designer sound guys still talk about the PCM 42.
The PCM81 is loaded with true sound effects, that would be used in movie/commercial/radio production.
Thanks for your help and coaching on the Aw2816.
Ron |
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