Volume pedal for PSG: Ernie Ball?

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

These are fairly available on eBay, and I'm wondering if they are commonly used or not, due to pivot point, angle, etc.
Anyone?

Similarly, the Dunlop Hi-Gain. Is it used for pedal steel? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7340014826&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
This one needs work; is it just the pot?

Webb Kline · From: Orangeville, PA

I suffered with an Ernie Ball for a long time. They break a lot of strings because they aren't really intended for use as a psg pedal. If you're going to get one make sure you have spare strings and pots.

I must say that when I switched to a Goodrich 120 it seemed like it was technology that could only have been derived from an extraterrestrial source in comparison with the Ernie Ball pedal. The Goodrich is so much smoother and seems like it enriches the tone if that's possible.

The potless pedals are even better from what I'm told although a quick A-B between them and the 120 didn't reveal enough significant difference to justify my upgrading to one.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I think they're worth a try but get one with the jacks on the side. I think the later model ones were designed for regular guitar players with the jacks coming out of the front.
Erv

Martin Abend · From: Berlin, Germany

I still have to use one and it sucked from minute one. Don't get one, somehow they just don't work with PSG. For guitar it's a great pedal.

MArtin

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martin abend Pedal-Steel in Germany
s-10 sierra crown gearless 3 x4 | GiMa squareneck

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Mainly they're kind of stiff, the axle fits tightly into the housing of the pedal. I think they're designed to be set at a certain point and stay there, not to be constantly moving.

But I will say their new, smaller VP2 model is really a convenient little size, makes a good backup pedal or if you've got a light-weight setup for your lap steel, etc. . .

Bob Martin · From: Madison Tn

I use to use one when I first started using a VP and not knowing any better I thought they were fine, but they went thru strings at the rate of about one every other month.

So after getting caught with a broken VP the 3rd or 4th time I switched to boss stereo VP and I loved it except it was made out of plastic, but it was gear driven and that was the last of the string problems.

I have since went to a midi volume controller hooked into my effects and thats the way to go because I can have different patches set up to control different parameters like wah, delay length or volume or different reverb tails and many more.

So if you use a midi effects unit like the tubefex or any newer multi effects give it a try you'll like it I'm sure. I could go on and on but you can set the min volume at any point you want or even set the max volume so that you'll never get to loud unless you turn around and crank the amp up Smile

)

Bob

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

If you have to go the budget Ebay route for now, the DeArmond 1602 pedals are easy to find too. I use one for regular guitar and it's fine for that. The advantage over the Ernie Ball is that it's a geared pedal rather than stringed - I'm not sure if the gears eventually wear though, seem like they would. Also, pedals designed for steel always use a 500K pot and guitar pedals might have a 250K pot.

Ben Slaughter · From: Madera, California

I started with an EB because that's what I had from my guitar rig. The angle of the pedal really put my leg in an akwared position and made my knee hurt. When I got a pedal designed for PSG, it made a huge difference.

The EB pedals are made for guitar players who play standing up, therefore, the full forward position (full volume) is perfectly flat, whereas, the pedals made for PSG (Goodrich, Hilton, etc) have a slight angle at the "full volume" position, making it a more natural angle when sitting at the PSG.

Between that, and the fact that the in/out jacks are on the front (on the newer models), which makes for akward positioning against the PSG's pedalboard, makes the EB pedals a poor choise for PSG, IMO.

PS, other than the string breaking on the EB, it's a good pedal for guitar.

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

Geared pedals are extremely "rough" feeling in their travel. The string-drive pedal is a lot smoother feeling. The EB pedal is built well,but they do use a small string compared to the other brands. You definitely don't want the connectors on the front of the pedal. I have a Hilton infrared pedal and a Goodrich string pedal. They are both good pedals. The Hilton is outstanding,costs more and to me, it is worth it. If you are only going to play at home, a string pedal will do nicely.

Scott Swartz · From: St. Louis, MO

I can agree with height and angle comments, but I deal with those and use the EB for one reason.

The EB has a much longer travel arc, making it less touchy.

Its just like with the pedals, some guys like them long and slow, others short and quick. I have a Goodrich L-120 gathering dust, it just too "fast" for me, I tried to get used to it.

But then I have my pedals set to travel at least 3/4 - 1 inch also, which most steelers would find waaaay too slow.

Actually I would be interested to hear of other choices (pot pedals only) that are longer travel than the Goodrich but maybe not as long as the EB.

[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 02 August 2005 at 10:40 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Thank you all.
I gather there's no experience with the Dunlop Hi-Gain.
Very useful answers.

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

Charlie,
I used a Dunlop when I first started playing and the main problem I found was the system itself. The older pedals used a nylon ratcheting system whereas a toothed nylon strip would turn a nylon gear on the pot as you pressed or depressed the pedal. After some use, the teeth in both begin to wear and start to slip causing pedal malfunction and sometimes complete failure. It seems as in the case of the Ernie Ball, these are better suited for guitar than steel (but at $39.00, they are a bargain)..... FWIW, to the best of my knowledge, the Jr. Ernie Ball comes with a 250K pot, and the standard uses a 500K. Hope this has been helpful.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Thanks, all. this gives me a pretty good overview of the situation.
It looks like unless you can go Goodrich or Hilton, it's try one and see.
There's this Behringer....

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Charlie.. Maybe I'm an oddball, but I REALLY like my Ernie Ball.. I have used it since about 1980 and it still has the original string... I am trying to find another as a matter of fact.... I think they are fine, but what do I know??

bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 03 August 2005 at 04:00 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Well, Bob, you know what I like.... I tend to listen to other oddballs.
I've looked at the profiles/angles of several, and it looks to me like the EB will work.
I don't plan on being hard on a pedal; I don't gig, so emergency repairs aren't an issue.
I want the longer travel arc, as Scott says.

Guess you've got the response I was looking for, Bob. Not very scientific, am I?

Earl Foote · From: Houston, Tx, USA

Ernie Ball still repairs these pedals no matter how old. Go to www.ernieball.com and go to where they show the pedals. They even have a pdf file that shows how to replace the string. I've got two of the older ones with the jacks on the side. I like 'em.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

I think our friend Dave Mudgett used an EB also and I think he liked it.. Till I sold him a REAL pedal!

I never had a lick of trouble in about 25 years.. Pot gets scratchy and I spray it... good to go..bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 03 August 2005 at 09:00 AM.]

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

I still use the EB pedal a lot, although I also have an old Goodrich Steel Man light beam unit in the kit. They do sound different, but not necessarily better or worse and yes, the EB's pedal angle at the "off" position is different - I often use the EB when I wear boots with heels as it gives me more of the same ankle movement that I get with the Goodrich when wearing tennies or other non-heeled footwear.

The geared DeArmond pedals that I have seen don't use the entire travel of the pot, you either can't get it all the way off or all the way on - the EB seems to use 95% of the travel at least. I have broken the string before and can verify that that's no fun at all to fix. Still, at $100 the EB is relatively inexpensive and can be found anywhere in a hurry, like when you're far from home and don't have time to fix an old, noisy,or broken pedal.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I use the Fender pedal. It's light, very low profile, and by far the easiest to restring or repair. The action is smooth, and the foot surface is large, too. It's also very well shielded, meaning that you can't see any wiring or the pot from the outside. That reduces hum, and makes the pot last longer, since it never "sees" all the dirt outside. (You can even use this pedal in the rain, and the water will never touch the pot!) Long ago, I stopped even putting the screws back in that hold the bottom on. It snaps off easily for repairs, which I haven't had to do in years. The only down side, if you can call it that, is that they don't fasten to the pedalboard, like a lot of other pedals. Since I don't like the volume pedal too close to the pedalboard anyway, that doesn't bother me at all.

Scott Swartz · From: St. Louis, MO

One more thing on the EB, I have a trick I use for changing the string and the pot.

I have found that the easiest way to get the string hooked back up after maintenance is to take out the two screws on the bottom that connect the pot mounting bracket to the pedal body extrusion. Then the pot and bracket can be moved back to get the string hooked with no spring tension.

Once the string is hooked, you simply line up the bracket with the screw holes and put the screws back in. In this way you are tensioning the spring by grabbing the bracket, instead of using a paper clip or whatever.

Scott Swartz · From: St. Louis, MO

One more thing on the EB, I have a trick I use for changing the string and the pot.

I have found that the easiest way to get the string hooked back up after maintenance is to take out the two screws on the bottom that connect the pot mounting bracket to the pedal body extrusion. Then the pot and bracket can be moved back to get the string hooked with no spring tension.

Once the string is hooked, you simply line up the bracket with the screw holes and put the screws back in. In this way you are tensioning the spring by grabbing the bracket, instead of using a paper clip or whatever.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Bob's right, I used EB pedals for the first few years I played PSG. I had used an EB for 6-string guitar for many years, and it was natural to just use it for steel. I think they're fine, but I've been using a Goodrich 120 for the last year or so, and the very cool BMI pedal I got from Bob, with my BMI S-10. It looks and feels great.

I think the angle on the EB pedal is designed more designed for guitar players, who are standing up. I used to change the strings every 2-3 years, whether they needed one or not - never had any real problem with strings.

I'll say that I am very much not crazy about the new EBs which have the jacks in front. What were they thinking when they made that change? Find an old one with the jacks on the side if you go that way.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I've got one spotted that's a 500k ohm, side jacks, and a little plate on the side of the pedal that your sole buts up against.
I'll give ol' Ernie a try.
Thanks, guys, for all the responses. Very helpful.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Hey all,

I am stuck with the Ernie Ball (front loader!) for the time being. Last night the string broke (and sent a little spring flying out from under my Dekley: Made me very nervous 'til I figured out where it was coming from! Well, I took the whole thing apart and got it all put back together (not easy!) and working.

Question though: while I had it apart I discovered there is a little PC board into which the jacks and pot go. On there is a (very) little black switch. Anyone know what this does? I prayed I had put it back in the correct position after I put the whole contraption back together. Presumably I did since it works, but I'd like to know what that switch does.

Thanks.

Dan

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Dan Beller-McKenna
Durham, NH
Dekley S-10, Telecaster, Guild D-35, tin can

John Sluszny · From: Brussels, Belgium

GOODRICH...HILTON,that's all.

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